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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#171
post #78

15+ years as an Apple user, this is my biggest pet peeve. The other two being: - the touch strip, which I find mostly annoying. I'd prefer physical buttons with the ability to show different labels (a la Optimus keyboard). - whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea.

Discontinuing MagSafe should also be on this list.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last company gave us iPhones, and I was excited to try an Apple product without giving Apple money. Wow, I felt like I was using a phone that was 5 years old. I only imagine Apple users have Allegory of the Cave effect, they don't know whats out there. Leaving the cave is lots of work, so they enjoy whats available for them.

I'm using iPhone and I did some Android development recently. I bought quite recent phone (cheap as hell, of course, but it's not slow). Sorry, Android is still not going to win over iOS for me. Price is awesome, yeah, that phone for $200 is as good as my $1000 iPhone, but Android is for very different kind of people than I am. And even that advantage seems to vanish in new versions (e.g. it seems that you can't reco…

Do you have any reasons?

You didn't post any in your comment.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do IT orders in a research institute, a MBP user wants a big memory machine to do server side data analysis, and wants to order the iMac pro 128 GB ram. He’s shocked to learn that for the same price he can get a Dell Epyc server with 512 GB ram. Guess what he still wants? The iMac, for the “ecosystem”.

The other commenter makes good points re: the cognitive cost of switching platforms, but let me give you another point of view: the Apple ecosystem is, actually, shockingly good. My Apple Watch unlocks all of my Macs. When I join a new WiFi network on my iPhone, those credentials are immediately available to my iPad. When my iPhone rings, it pauses video playing on my Apple TV until I ignore the call. To send a link…

I’m sure you’ve enumerated a number of “user stories” of PMs in Apple but none of that should apply to a public sector research project involving computationally intensive data analysis. This guy needs a dual socket Xeon with tons of ram and none of the BS

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is good experience to be able to buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. Choosing among thousands of alternatives is pretty frustrating. What brand should I choose? HP, Dell, Lenovo, IBM, Acer, Asus, whatever? I need good display, fast CPU, good battery life, enough RAM. Pretty vague requirements. You are buying Macbook and it's just good, you don't have any regrets, because its CPU is o…

>buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. The alternative is that you spend 30 minutes of research and get a superior product cheaper. This isnt an opinion, this is reality. You can find a computer with better specs than Apple, cheaper. I'm not sympathetic to the 'mom' who doesn't know what RAM is, they get penalized by Apple for being an uninformed consumer. Is there any reason for a 'Nerd'…

> The alternative is that you spend 30 minutes of research and get a superior product cheaper.

Then it breaks and you have to send it back for warranty and wait months until they repair it. Plastic breaks, etc. It's not that simple.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other commenter makes good points re: the cognitive cost of switching platforms, but let me give you another point of view: the Apple ecosystem is, actually, shockingly good. My Apple Watch unlocks all of my Macs. When I join a new WiFi network on my iPhone, those credentials are immediately available to my iPad. When my iPhone rings, it pauses video playing on my Apple TV until I ignore the call. To send a link…

The use case was server side data analysis. If it’s important work the researcher should get the much much more powerful server and run Linux like most sane people do. Who cares if your server can pair with your Apple Watch or use WhatsApp.

Thanks! I thought I’d drown in the Apple fans here

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#176
My main complaint with their new keyboard design, not having used it enough to encounter any reliability issues, is that it’s just way too cramped to actually type on. I’ve since gone back to an older MBP, but while I was using the newer design I found the only way I could actually type on it was using an external keyboard. There really wasn’t anything wrong with the 2012/2015 form factor and I wish they’d go back to that.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all we know, the researcher could've also mistaken their real RAM requirements and 64GB would give them equal performance. I'd rather walk them through the options and then let them make the decision that they're most comfortable with, rather than mandating something that they don't want and which might make them less efficient as a result.

The research project in question will use as much RAM as is available, and we already have 128gb machines available, and access to larger. Why, for just running some MATLAB scripts through SSH would you need to stay with the Apple ecosystem for that?

I have no idea. Could be some OS X package oddity, or maybe they just like to AirDrop stuff to themselves?

In any case, I suspect if you do a little discovery with that person - what specific problem are you trying to solve by staying with a Mac? - you'll find the answer. You might even be able to convince them to change their order if you find it's something that can be easily worked around in a way they hadn't thought of.

As someone who has been on the researcher's side of this conversation, I can tell you that I'm always happy to discuss my reasoning with someone in your position who's genuinely trying to help me. On the flip side, I get very annoyed when they're just being obstinate because they disagree with my choice on spec (and this is an endemic problem in corporate purchasing orgs.)

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do IT orders in a research institute, a MBP user wants a big memory machine to do server side data analysis, and wants to order the iMac pro 128 GB ram. He’s shocked to learn that for the same price he can get a Dell Epyc server with 512 GB ram. Guess what he still wants? The iMac, for the “ecosystem”.

The other commenter makes good points re: the cognitive cost of switching platforms, but let me give you another point of view: the Apple ecosystem is, actually, shockingly good. My Apple Watch unlocks all of my Macs. When I join a new WiFi network on my iPhone, those credentials are immediately available to my iPad. When my iPhone rings, it pauses video playing on my Apple TV until I ignore the call. To send a link…

But on the other hand, iCloud is shit. The rules for what photos sync where, and which ones are safe to delete from my phone are puzzling, to say the least. Music syncing rarely goes smoothly because some tracks, for some unknown reason, can't be copied due to DRM. Podcast management is a nightmare, partially because the app is so badly designed, but that is compounded by podcasts not being on the device you want them to be on. (I have gotten into situations where I can't download a podcast because the app thinks it shouldn't or doesn't need to or who the hell knows.) Family sharing is a joke. Very difficult to know who can see what, (which has led to mild embarrassment at times).

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#179
post #78

15+ years as an Apple user, this is my biggest pet peeve. The other two being: - the touch strip, which I find mostly annoying. I'd prefer physical buttons with the ability to show different labels (a la Optimus keyboard). - whichever idiot thought putting the power plug at the bottom of the Magic Mouse was a good idea.

People still bringing up the Magic Mouse. The idea is you weren't supposed to leave it plugged in. 2 hours of charging = 2 months of use so it's not like charging was supposed to be a regular occurrence.

I remain baffled some people just take whatever Apple shoves down their throat. It's a design _atrocity_. Just like Apple Pencil V1, iPhone 4 antenna issues, iPhone 6 bending screens, butterfly insanity on the MacBooks. I don't buy this 'you're holding it wrong'-attitude anymore.

And it's also completely different from removing a headphone jack – you could actually see that as a form of progress. But charging a mouse without being able to use it – try and convince me that is progress.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#180
post #70

I don't understand the failure of the butterfly keyboard? I haven't had any issues with my 2017 macBook and it seems to keep kruft from getting under my keys (A problem I had with the older macbook keyboards) I also live on my macbook so it's constantly in use, and much to my displeasure, around food.

I was just like you until a couple weeks ago. No grime in the keyboard, heavy use, took it with me everywhere, used it every day since 2016. (That being said, it was/is in pristine condition--no scratches, dents, or drops.) But one day it just happened. Nothing to provoke it--hadn't been eating over it, hadn't been treating it any rougher than usual. E key started bouncing (repeating). Rarely at first, but it got wor…

They're actually really easy to remove without breaking, in my experience. You just have to use a very thin piece of flexible plastic to get under them from the top.
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