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New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

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Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#71

Post by chrisseaton »

DiffEq wrote: post #44
umvi wrote: post #6

Seems like the Air Force is trapped in a vicious underhiring/overhiring cycle. When I was in college I did Air Force ROTC. A lot of my peers had pilot slots; I was poised as a 17D (Cyber Ops). After graduating, my training date was put on hold virtually indefinitely. Eventually I got an email that the Air Force had commissioned way too many officers and were looking for people to voluntarily leave with no commitment/…

And...there is the other end. My brother is a pilot and was retired by the Air Force because he had been in so long...so out he goes. Now he is a contractor flying drones for them getting paid 3x as much while drawing a hefty retirement. My brother loved the Air Force and wanted to stay...now he gets to stay and get paid a boat load more. Air Force brass not very smart.

> Now he is a contractor flying drones for them getting paid 3x as much while drawing a hefty retirement.

Contracting him could easily still be cheaper than having him still be in.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#72

Post by jriot »

chrischattin wrote: post #40
jwally wrote: post #14

An Anecdotal "I quit" I read a couple of years ago about the (then impending) pilot shortage: https://www.jqpublicblog.com/punching-out-latest-dear-boss-l... Dear Boss, I’ve fucking had it. I’m finally giving up on my Air Force and I’m throwing in the towel. Flying fighter jets is no longer cool enough to outweigh the bullshit, and so I’ve broken the mach for the final time. You’re going to believe that I’m leaving b…

I'm a former Air Force pilot and was going to writeup a long post about my experience. But, this pretty much sums it up. I loved the people, and LOVED the flying. Some of the best times of my life. But, the organizational bloat, bureaucratic BS, and constant deployments just became too much. As you can imagine, it really wears on you to be gone 6 mo's every year risking your life for a counterproductive endless war t…

As a former Air Force air traffic controller, the sentiment is similar on the enlisted side. I remember a Chief called all controllers in for a meeting to discuss his new policies, then asking the NCOs what he thought of his them. Every NCO agreed and said they were needed Chief. I told him they were counterproductive and would cause more problems than solve. He kicked everyone out of the room, and we had a one-way conversation in which I was instructed to never disagree with him, ever, particularly in a group setting.

While ATC isn't fighter pilot cool, it was an amazing job to have when you're 18 at the beginning of the war (2003), but after 11 years of many similar experiences, as I illustrated above, I left. What struck me most, was when I told my Chief, Flight Commander, and SQ/CC I wasn't reenlisting, none of them tried to talk me into staying. I was dual rated - Tower and RAPCON (with ARTCC) - with 4 different facility ratings plus a deployment to Balad AB where we were pushing 1000+ aircraft a day. They could care less to keep their experienced NCOs in, their sole focus appeared to be on their next promotion and/or assignment. It solidified my choice while reassuring me I made the right decision.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#73

Post by whorleater »

chrisseaton wrote: post #70
umvi wrote: post #6

Seems like the Air Force is trapped in a vicious underhiring/overhiring cycle. When I was in college I did Air Force ROTC. A lot of my peers had pilot slots; I was poised as a 17D (Cyber Ops). After graduating, my training date was put on hold virtually indefinitely. Eventually I got an email that the Air Force had commissioned way too many officers and were looking for people to voluntarily leave with no commitment/…

> looking for people to voluntarily leave with no commitment/obligation - seemed like a good deal How’s that a good deal? Presumably you wanted to join and now that’s something you’d never get to do?

ROTC paid him for some amount of college without him ever needing to join.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#74

Post by chrisseaton »

richardhod wrote: post #61
nradov wrote: post #33

The Army also has a pilot shortage, but they've done a little better than the Air Force due to allowing warrant officers to fly. Many pilots just want to fly , they don't want to deal with all the other management responsibilities and staff assignments that come with being a commissioned officer. When the Air Force split off from the Army they decided they only wanted commissioned officers as pilots and eliminated WO…

It's interesting how the US military copied the British class-based system of management, officers v other ranks. It does stymie a lot of creativity and talent.

> It's interesting how the US military copied the British class-based system of management, officers v other ranks.

That’s been the military system the world over for millennia - not really a uniquely British thing is it!

And officers don’t just manage - they lead.

Also - you can be a pilot and an enlisted soldier (Sgt and up) in Britain unlike in the US, so we do not differentiate as much for that role as the US does!

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#76

Post by tomohawk »

chrisseaton wrote: post #71
DiffEq wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And...there is the other end. My brother is a pilot and was retired by the Air Force because he had been in so long...so out he goes. Now he is a contractor flying drones for them getting paid 3x as much while drawing a hefty retirement. My brother loved the Air Force and wanted to stay...now he gets to stay and get paid a boat load more. Air Force brass not very smart.

> Now he is a contractor flying drones for them getting paid 3x as much while drawing a hefty retirement. Contracting him could easily still be cheaper than having him still be in.

Not in this case. He's already going to get retirement benefits. Now, he's being payed a lot more, and part of that pay is for an additional retirement benefit.

Contracting is really for short term needs. You pay short term wages (which bundle in insurance, retirement, profit, etc) for contractors. However, if the organization will continue to have that same need for several years, then paying people short term wages for that long is very expensive.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#77

Post by adestefan »

jcurbo wrote: post #26
driverdan wrote: post #18

> A recent RAND study found the cost of training a basic qualified fighter pilot ranges from $5.6 million for an F-16 pilot to $10.9 million for an F-22 pilot. Those numbers seem outrageous to me. Why does it cost so much? Are there frequent plane crashes?

- Years of training on multiple platforms (initial pilot training, follow up training on the platform itself, possibly others) - Maintenance and logistics of those platforms - Probably amortizing the cost of those planes across each pilot using it for training

The cost of the people to support all of that, too.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#79

Post by aurailious »

openasocket wrote: post #36

This is probably part of the reason why the USAF is leaning so hard towards unmanned systems in the future, because it opens up a lot of doors here. Drone pilots can be put pretty much anywhere in the world so they don't need to be forward-deployed, which will probably help attract people. The physical standards can be strongly relaxed, no need to worry about eyesight or their ability to handle 8Gs, which increases t…

> Drone pilots can be put pretty much anywhere in the world so they don't need to be forward-deployed, which will probably help attract people.

Unfortunately the USAF likes to put all their drone pilots at Beale which from what I have heard isn't a very big difference in experience from Minot.

Also right now all drones are required to be full pilots and officers. This is a big factor in the shortages problem. No one wants to through the Academy and then sit at a desk flinging a joystick around. When I was in it was asked all the time why not have warrant officers or let enlisted fly drones? Brass always said no.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#80

Post by reallydude »

magduf wrote: post #60
kevinventullo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American voter, I can assure you my choices have always been war or war.

There have always been 3rd-party choices on the ballot.

I think it's ironic that your comment was downoted. The mentality of Americans is warped beyond repair. If you don't think you have a chance of winning, it's not "realistic" or what-have-you, until you get to the lottery...

See the sister comment about voting for HC against DT because it's all or nothing.

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