Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 239 posts

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#201

Post by melling »

teddyh wrote: post #190
melling wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, with the voice UI, eye-tracking, and lots of subtle Soli gestures ( https://atap.google.com/soli/ ), think I could work for 20-30 minutes? -->"But, IIRC, people whose job it is to talk all day have been shown to have a higher rate of vocal cord cancer." Because nowhere did I say how long I wanted to work. For some reason you're taking your lack of imagination and trying to extrapolate it into an all day affair wh…

> think I could work for 20-30 minutes? Barely, maybe. Gesturing with your arms for that long is hard work. I don’t know what the practical limits would be, but even lecturers who hold long speeches with lots of gestures rest their arms on the podium for a reason, and can continue speaking while resting their arms. > you're taking your lack of imagination and trying to extrapolate it into an all day affair On the con…

I’m only moving my hands. I can still move my hands while resting my arms.

I think you should watch the Soli video again. I’m getting tired of repeating myself.

No affiliation with Google or Soli. I keep repeating it because you seem to to be hung up with the extended arm motion and “gorilla arm”

MIT has done some gesture UI work. Don’t know much about it:

http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#202

Post by klipklop »

alexisread wrote: post #164
e1ven wrote: post #28

The inclusion of ray tracing hardware is interesting to me, and sounds like good news to Nvidia, who has been pushing ray tracing as part of their RTX cards. Even though this uses a custom GPU, if consoles don't support ray tracing, PC games are unlikely to be designed for it, since most games have cross platform releases. It's also interesting to me that they're supporting the existing PSVR - The new hardware will r…

Just a shout out to a coder who has managed realtime raytracing on a stock Atari Falcon (16mhz CPU): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTGnZTDUKd0

This is pretty awesome, thanks for the link. I like what he has done with Quake 2 as well.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#203

Post by baddox »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #198
baddox wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, are you suggesting that they're just straight up lying? They would need to not just trick me into thinking I'm seeing HDR (which is probably doable), but also trick my TV into thinking it's playing Dolby Vision, and also actually use significantly more bandwidth than a 720p stream would (I've checked at my router). I'm sure all those things are possible, but it's also pretty likely that they're actually producing…

Yeah, I can't see a way to fake Dolby Vision - it's pretty obvious when you're getting the extra dynamic range from the image - I'm surprised by how much more apparent it is than 4k. I can see resolution fakery, but that's why I asked if they thought it was possible to scale down the 4k Dolby Vision to 1080p Dolby Vision

I mean, you can definitely fake Dolby Vision. The Apple TV 4K has an option to always output Dolby Vision, and they do their own tone mapping to output normal HDR or SDR content in Dolby Vision. I don't use this feature, and it had pretty terrible reviews at launch (although I heard they have improved it).

But yeah, I think the actual presence of additional dynamic range is pretty noticeable for most well-produced content.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#204

Post by Dylan16807 »

tracker1 wrote: post #187
Dylan16807 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fun comparison there, because 1080p to 4K demands a doubling of bandwidth, and h.264 to h.265 lets you cut bandwidth in half. So you get all that extra quality for free.

It's roughly 4X the bandwidth, not 2X... though 4K at roughly double the size with h.265 or even close to the same size is often "good enough" looking and better than 1080p. Though, I still tend to mostly use 720p h.265 for TV watching as, again, it's "good enough" that I often don't notice too much. 65" TV at about 10' away. I do notice from 720p to 1080 and from 1080 to 4k (UHD). It depends more on what I'm watchin…

Once you're already at HD, 4x the resolution is not 4x the bandwidth.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#205

Post by PHGamer »

pwthornton wrote: post #48
notTyler wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ray tracing hardware being included kind of worries me actually. Unless they're selling it at a loss I can't see it being below 500 dollars with the prices of ray tracing capable cards being as high as they are. As far as PSVR, the herculean amount of effort required to get something in the vein of backwards compatibility going between PS3 and PS4 makes me think it was designed from the ground up to work with basical…

Almost all video game consoles are sold at a loss -- sometimes a huge loss in the first few years. Making money on console hardware has never been the name of the game. Every game sold for a Playstation comes with a licensing fee. It's in Sony's best interest to sell as many games as possible, which often means selling consoles at a loss. Sony and other hardware makers also sell a lot of accessories, which often have…

i dont think thats been the case for the last gen. i thought they made profit early. but i could be wrong.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#206

Post by [deleted] »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #161
izzydata wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the high cost of performance. As a consumer I am not really concerned with how easy it is to develop for. I'd rather see high frame rates than bleeding edge graphics. It's a good technology, but if we can't even manage 60 FPS minimum in 2020 I will be highly disappointed.

> As a consumer I am not really concerned with how easy it is to develop for. I don't see how this could possibly be. Ease of development could mean the difference between your next favorite game existing at all. Or having the funds to become your next favorite game instead of cutting scope into a mediocre game that never got to realize its full creative ambition. All upstream concerns contribute to the end result th…

[deleted]

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#207

Post by klodolph »

baddox wrote: post #197
klodolph wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are mostly concerned about content rather than picture quality. Netflix can deliver 720p and people will pay for it, some people will pay for 4K because of the marketing but don't actually notice that they're getting 720p, and only a small group of people left over actually care enough. Just like how TVs come with default settings that mangle the picture quite a lot, and only some people will fix them.

Oh, are you suggesting that they're just straight up lying? They would need to not just trick me into thinking I'm seeing HDR (which is probably doable), but also trick my TV into thinking it's playing Dolby Vision, and also actually use significantly more bandwidth than a 720p stream would (I've checked at my router). I'm sure all those things are possible, but it's also pretty likely that they're actually producing…

I think you may be responding to something that I didn't write, because I absolutely never suggested that NetFlix is lying or tricking you.

It's just a matter of fact that, for various (many) reasons, people will get 720p streams. Some of these people are paying $3/month for "Premium" with "Ultra HD" and simply do not notice that they are not getting 4K streams. NetFlix would probably rather keep the $3/month, the alternative would be to educate their users about why they are are not getting 4K (can your TV handle it? can your playback device handle it? are they connected correctly? are they configured correctly? do you have sufficient bandwidth? are there problems with your ISP? does your device have the right DRM?) and this is both time-consuming and likely to create a bit of a support nightmare.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#208

Post by teddyh »

melling wrote: post #201
teddyh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> think I could work for 20-30 minutes? Barely, maybe. Gesturing with your arms for that long is hard work. I don’t know what the practical limits would be, but even lecturers who hold long speeches with lots of gestures rest their arms on the podium for a reason, and can continue speaking while resting their arms. > you're taking your lack of imagination and trying to extrapolate it into an all day affair On the con…

I’m only moving my hands. I can still move my hands while resting my arms. I think you should watch the Soli video again. I’m getting tired of repeating myself. No affiliation with Google or Soli. I keep repeating it because you seem to to be hung up with the extended arm motion and “gorilla arm” MIT has done some gesture UI work. Don’t know much about it: http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/

From what I could see from the Soli page, all the video showed people with arms in the air not resting on anything. OK, there’s one quick shot of a resting arm at 3min 36sec on the longer video.

But all this is irrelevant to the original issue, which is specifically about large-scale arm-based movements as exemplified by Minority Report. I can’t see how those, specifically, can ever be practical.

> I’m getting tired of repeating myself.

Repeating what? I asked you upthread if you had seen any gesture-based interfaces which avoided the gorilla arm problem, and you did not answer.

> No affiliation with Google or Soli.

(Yes, I can see that. I apologize for asking, implying you might have been, when I could easily have looked it up. I deleted the question from my text.)

> I keep repeating it because you seem to to be hung up with the extended arm motion and “gorilla arm”

Well, you’re the one who specifically wanted “a Minority Report interface”. Which I can’t see ever being practical. Google Soli, perhaps, if used in the small, like you describe, with armrests. Maybe. But not Minority Report or Jarvis.

> MIT has done some gesture UI work

From what I can tell, that work looks like it’s all 10 years old. Also, from what I have seen in the past, all efforts like those are essentially about creating nifty-looking models for interaction (with stunning visuals and huge wow-factors), and not ergonomic interactions made to be used for any length of time. Indeed, the entire “gorilla arm” jargon term was entirely about how people simply forgot about how different something is if you’re using it for doing real work for 4 hours as opposed to doing a 5 minute demo (or, as it were, a two-minute movie scene).

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#209

Post by veidr »

jjoonathan wrote: post #167
vvillena wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS5 will support 8K just like PS3 supported 1080p: it was there but almost no one used it. Nearly every game opted for 720p instead. It's a way to future-proof the generation, allowing for a future enhanced version of the console.

Cautionary tale: the PS4 Pro retroactively dropped support for many early 4K displays, including my own, in a software update. The updates were hardware fused to prevent downgrading, of course. My plan for 8k is to wait for mass market adoption before buying one and hooking it up to a DRM-box built by a company with foreseeable financial interest in "stimulating" display upgrades during a down quarter.

Wow really? That sucks... just curious: what model of TV do you have?

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#210

Post by baddox »

klodolph wrote: post #207
baddox wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, are you suggesting that they're just straight up lying? They would need to not just trick me into thinking I'm seeing HDR (which is probably doable), but also trick my TV into thinking it's playing Dolby Vision, and also actually use significantly more bandwidth than a 720p stream would (I've checked at my router). I'm sure all those things are possible, but it's also pretty likely that they're actually producing…

I think you may be responding to something that I didn't write, because I absolutely never suggested that NetFlix is lying or tricking you. It's just a matter of fact that, for various (many) reasons, people will get 720p streams. Some of these people are paying $3/month for "Premium" with "Ultra HD" and simply do not notice that they are not getting 4K streams. NetFlix would probably rather keep the $3/month, the al…

Sorry, I misinterpreted. I was thinking from the perspective of people with working 4K setups who are seeking 4K content.
Post reply on HN