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Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

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Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#181

Post by melling »

teddyh wrote: post #162
melling wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I should have simply said gesture UI. Of course, I'd like eye-tracking and voice UI too. I simply said "Minority Report interface" to help people visualize the idea. How about Iron Man's Jarvis? Would you have had a silly little rant over that too? [Update] Jarvis video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7RCJvoCMc

> I guess I should have simply said gesture UI. I would think that it’s hard to do those without the gorilla arm problem, since I haven’t seen any without it. If you have, please elaborate. > Of course, I'd like eye-tracking and voice UI too. Sure, those are no problem for the arms. But, IIRC, people whose job it is to talk all day have been shown to have a higher rate of vocal cord cancer. But, sure, that’s a differ…

So, with the voice UI, eye-tracking, and lots of subtle Soli gestures (https://atap.google.com/soli/), think I could work for 20-30 minutes?

-->"But, IIRC, people whose job it is to talk all day have been shown to have a higher rate of vocal cord cancer."

Because nowhere did I say how long I wanted to work. For some reason you're taking your lack of imagination and trying to extrapolate it into an all day affair where I'm holding up my arms.

Btw, I wouldn't mind that holographic display either but I'm willing to settle for an 8k display for now. After 17 years, and zero "Minority Report" gestures, I've learned that these things take time.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#182

Post by echelon »

izzydata wrote: post #158
davrosthedalek wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raytracing is a good thing, not so much because of the better graphics, but because it enables produce nice graphics with less sophisticated engines and less artist input. A lot of the lighting etc. is currently baked into textures, hard coded, hand-optimized. This takes a lot of time. With raytracing, a lot of this comes "for free", so smaller / indie dev teams can produce games with AAA level graphics.

At the high cost of performance. As a consumer I am not really concerned with how easy it is to develop for. I'd rather see high frame rates than bleeding edge graphics. It's a good technology, but if we can't even manage 60 FPS minimum in 2020 I will be highly disappointed.

Raytracing democratizes graphics. Indie shops will have to spend less time writing shaders and lighting and can refocus that attention on making the gameplay and overall experience better.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#183

Post by asdff »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #173
iwasakabukiman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good portion of cable isn’t even 1080p/i. Many cable companies squish things down to 720p/i to minimize bandwidth and shove more channels into their lineups.

And the compression - good gawd. I recently upgrade to a 4k OLED TV, and watching cable TV almost hurts - the blacks in Game of Thrones are painfully crushed, incredibly splotchy messes due to the compression.

If its any consolation the stream isn't much better

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#184

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

asdff wrote: post #183
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the compression - good gawd. I recently upgrade to a 4k OLED TV, and watching cable TV almost hurts - the blacks in Game of Thrones are painfully crushed, incredibly splotchy messes due to the compression.

If its any consolation the stream isn't much better

That's no consolation at all. Why can't we have nice things?

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#185

Post by asdff »

melling wrote: post #25
fullshark wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the tech demos in stores made the main use case how clear newspaper text looks in 4k instead of 1080p i realized we probably had reached the end of the TV resolution S-curve.

Guess they should have shown you the larger color space? https://nofilmschool.com/2013/07/4k-uhd-color-space-gamut-fr... Personally, I'd like a nice large wall size screen where I can "spread out my work" and read it. Throw in a Minority Report interface so I'm not stuck with a mouse and keyboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SFeCgoep1c

Projector?

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#186

Post by asdff »

gspetr wrote: post #166
pwthornton wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all video game consoles are sold at a loss -- sometimes a huge loss in the first few years. Making money on console hardware has never been the name of the game. Every game sold for a Playstation comes with a licensing fee. It's in Sony's best interest to sell as many games as possible, which often means selling consoles at a loss. Sony and other hardware makers also sell a lot of accessories, which often have…

> Selling hardware at a loss is one reason that consoles have always punched much higher graphically relative to price. Here's a 2 year old video comparing a $550 PC (with RX480) to PS4 Pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HueyUmSHrdo Also, PS4 Pro specs list its GPU perf at 4.2 Tflops, while a GTX 1080, worth $499 and predating PS4 Pro by half a year has 8.2 Tflops. It's in the ballpark of 3.8Tflops of GTX 1060, MSR…

It was always the case that you can build a faster PC than a console at roughly the same price. The difference is the games are optimized for the console then usually poorly ported to PC so they aren't very comparable.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#187

Post by tracker1 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #159
tracker1 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

precompressed content at 4K h.265 is pretty damned good at even relatively high compression. I also prefer the degredation method h.265 uses over h.264. For 720p-1080p it can actually go both ways, the higher the resolution the better h.265 is as the compression algo. However, that means nothing for live streaming as generally speaking "live stream" compression really tends to suck a lot. And as to the above, a lot o…

It's a fun comparison there, because 1080p to 4K demands a doubling of bandwidth, and h.264 to h.265 lets you cut bandwidth in half. So you get all that extra quality for free.

It's roughly 4X the bandwidth, not 2X... though 4K at roughly double the size with h.265 or even close to the same size is often "good enough" looking and better than 1080p.

Though, I still tend to mostly use 720p h.265 for TV watching as, again, it's "good enough" that I often don't notice too much. 65" TV at about 10' away. I do notice from 720p to 1080 and from 1080 to 4k (UHD). It depends more on what I'm watching. Some settings are better on some content, and as I mention I actually like the way h.265 degrades (often blurry in the background) vs blocky h.264. (facial hair for live motion is my guide)

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#188

Post by F-0X »

wazoox wrote: post #172

8K doesn't make sense, anywhere. I'm middle-aged, and I can't at 2 meters distinguish 4K from 1080p. Nobody in the world can see the difference between 8K and 4K. It's a shameful waste of resource and ridiculous planned obsolescence. In fact, it should probably be forbidden for wasting precious resources for no good reason.

Exactly. I would prefer they directed their budget somewhere other than graphics for this reason. The switch still plays most games at only 720p I believe, but this is more than sufficient for enjoyable games. I think 4k is a waste of memory, let alone 8k.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#189

Post by asdff »

slantyyz wrote: post #95
overcast wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says right in the title. "Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details: 8K graphics, ray tracing, SSDs, and PS4 backwards compatibility"

At this point, the hardware on the PS5 sounds powerful enough to provide backwards compatibility for the PS3 (and all of its predecessors). That would appeal to some people who have old consoles/games collecting dust in their basements/attics.

Why do that when they can sell you a remastered edition for $60.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#190

Post by teddyh »

melling wrote: post #181
teddyh wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess I should have simply said gesture UI. I would think that it’s hard to do those without the gorilla arm problem, since I haven’t seen any without it. If you have, please elaborate. > Of course, I'd like eye-tracking and voice UI too. Sure, those are no problem for the arms. But, IIRC, people whose job it is to talk all day have been shown to have a higher rate of vocal cord cancer. But, sure, that’s a differ…

So, with the voice UI, eye-tracking, and lots of subtle Soli gestures ( https://atap.google.com/soli/ ), think I could work for 20-30 minutes? -->"But, IIRC, people whose job it is to talk all day have been shown to have a higher rate of vocal cord cancer." Because nowhere did I say how long I wanted to work. For some reason you're taking your lack of imagination and trying to extrapolate it into an all day affair wh…

> think I could work for 20-30 minutes?

Barely, maybe. Gesturing with your arms for that long is hard work. I don’t know what the practical limits would be, but even lecturers who hold long speeches with lots of gestures rest their arms on the podium for a reason, and can continue speaking while resting their arms.

> you're taking your lack of imagination and trying to extrapolate it into an all day affair

On the contrary, you’re taking my writing “for any length of time”, and somehow assuming I meant “all day”. Which I didn’t mean. I only used the phrase “all day” in an unrelated aside about voice interfaces, and only then while referring to a study which (IIRC) specifically was about people who talked all day. But this was unrelated to gesture interfaces, which is why I did not follow this line of inquiry.

My point is that gesture interfaces are very hard work to use for longer periods of time (I’m unsure of the exact number), and if they can only be used for shorter periods, are they worth the hassle to learn? If you have work you need to do which takes longer than your arms can handle, you need an alternate interface anyway, (presumably some keyboard/mouse variation which have proven themselves to be reasonably effective) and if you already have that, why do you want to have to learn the gesture one?

This assumes, of course, that no gesture interface can solve the gorilla arm problem. But there might be one. Case in point: iPads were successful in avoiding the gorilla arm problem even though they are touch interfaces which the “gorilla arm” phrase originally refers to, and iPads avoid the problem by being small enough that people can use one while holding their arms in their lap – essentially while mostly resting their arms. There might be some solution to gesture interfaces which I’ve not yet seen.

> your lack of imagination

That’s twice you’ve now insulted me without provocation. Are you upset about the fact that I question the premise on which gesture-based interfaces are based?

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