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LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

nytimes.com

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Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#111
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue differently. Government has shown time and again that it’s one size fits all approach towards schooling isn’t working. Combine their poor execution, purposeful lack of civics training, with special interests and rent seeking, for example, school textbooks. We are leaving way too many kids behind as it is. It’s turned into government day care. I would argue school is where citizens need to have the great…

> Government has shown time and again that it’s one size fits all approach towards schooling isn’t working. Combine their poor execution, purposeful lack of civics training, with special interests and rent seeking, for example, school textbooks. Government has not shown that at all, look around the world an you'll find plenty of examples of government providing quality education to all.

> look around the world an you'll find plenty of examples of government providing quality education to all.

195 countries, less than a dozen countries with non-small size populations are doing a good job at all on education.

The rest - where's the proof? Where are the results? Look at the development situations in Italy, Greece, Turkey, Russia, Mexico, Brazil, Indonesia, Pakistan, China, Venezuela and so on.

Where's this overwhelming outcome proof that government education particularly works so well?

China still has half a billion people with the equivalent of a fifth grade education or less. They've had an all-powerful government for over half a century.

The vast majority of the world still struggles with basic economic development, basic government functions, extreme corruption, basic human rights and inconsistently available utilities.

When you strip out the tiny nations like Luxembourg, Iceland, Qatar, Ireland, Finland, Norway, Singapore, Cyprus, Malta, Kuwait, etc. - you have about two dozen nations above the global average GDP per capita level (a mere $10k). That's how piss poor the world's situation actually still is on education results.

Take a look at the development index on the world, then drop out the tiny nations. Where are all the large nation success stories on governments doing such a great job? There are exceptionally few anywhere to be found.

It's all tiny nations, and it's obvious why: it's because the people are closer to their government in those nations. It's dramatically easier to hold your government accountable, and to make government very personal, when your nation has 500k or 5m people, versus 50m+.

You can count the larger nations that do education really well on just two hands.

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#112
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue differently. Government has shown time and again that it’s one size fits all approach towards schooling isn’t working. Combine their poor execution, purposeful lack of civics training, with special interests and rent seeking, for example, school textbooks. We are leaving way too many kids behind as it is. It’s turned into government day care. I would argue school is where citizens need to have the great…

> Government has shown time and again that it’s one size fits all approach towards schooling isn’t working. Combine their poor execution, purposeful lack of civics training, with special interests and rent seeking, for example, school textbooks. Government has not shown that at all, look around the world an you'll find plenty of examples of government providing quality education to all.

> look around the world an you'll find plenty of examples of government providing quality education to all

Frankly, I look around the world and find a mix of authoritarian regimes and countries whose capitals are burning down in riots. A minority balance the need for broadness with the need for experimentation (and repelling political meddling.)

There are merits to preventing government from monopolising social services.

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#113
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government has shown time and again that it’s one size fits all approach towards schooling isn’t working. Combine their poor execution, purposeful lack of civics training, with special interests and rent seeking, for example, school textbooks. Government has not shown that at all, look around the world an you'll find plenty of examples of government providing quality education to all.

> look around the world an you'll find plenty of examples of government providing quality education to all. 195 countries, less than a dozen countries with non-small size populations are doing a good job at all on education. The rest - where's the proof? Where are the results? Look at the development situations in Italy, Greece, Turkey, Russia, Mexico, Brazil, Indonesia, Pakistan, China, Venezuela and so on. Where's…

What is public education like in France, Germany, or the UK? They all have populations greater than 66m. At least Germany (83m) I’ve heard good things about their educational system. Why is it so bad in the US?

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nominally the law in my state too, but apparently it's fine to weed out the "non-performers" i.e. whoever you want. Public schools then have to take on the extra burden of the "undesirables". https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/nyregion/at-a-success-aca...

I went to a HS that strongly encouraged under-performers to go to the "alternative" vocational high school. (#1 in the nation my ass).

If there were actually vocational trade schools I would support this kind of thing. I know that in this context it just means the shittier school.

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charter schools dont skirt special needs kids they take them in. Whats really absurd is that a lot of people are against the lottery but totally fine with public schools zipcode method. Edit: why the downvotes? My two sons are at a charter school they take special needs children. They have to by law.

There are plenty of reports of charter schools pushing out low-performing students to get the student population they want. Labeling students with disabilities and claiming they don't have enough services to support them is very common. Unequal punishment leading to expulsion is another. http://gothamist.com/2015/10/30/success_academy_charter.php Another common tactic is to play games with the lottery/application pro…

There are plenty of reports about all sorts of things. That doesn't mean they are true. In the case of Success Academy I have two boys who go there, the school have all sorts of children including special needs children.

There is so much hate around charter schools that you should be careful with what you read into these reports. Much of what is written is either blatantly false or completely out of context.

Like every other thing in this world there are good and bad charter schools just like there are good and bad public and private schools. Everything has tradeoffs. Personally I think the lottery is more fair than whether you live in a specific zone for your kids. Each to their own.

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#117
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That applies to a lot of things in life not just this so that feels like reaching imo. Sure parents need to be stable not the least financially but they need that to be good parents, good spouses, citizens etc.

But I think the point is that it's really incredibly hard to do any of those things unless you have financial stability; at the very least, it's a hell of a lot easier when you do.

Life is hard. It's still a different discussion unless you don't think it applies to people who don't have any children.

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#118

It's a shame that a private citizen has do this. Reflects poorly on our country that the economically disadvantaged really do not have a choice or a voice. And these are not people who choose to be poor or incapable. They really don't have any other option.

Um so what about the endless govt programs out there that were supposed to achieve things like this brat have failed? It's not like our country doesn't do anything - it's a very complex problem. There are efforts and they tend to have mediocre results at best. I've personally worked in some of these programs and the reality is govt just isn't well suited for the nuance and individual attention/thought different disad…

It's not really that hard though. It just takes money that we're unwilling to spend. Money for lead abatement, healthcare, early childhood education, summer programs, athletics, healthy school lunches, air conditioned classrooms, high-skilled and highly-paid teachers, intervention programs for at-risk youth, addiction treatment, school counselors, etc., etc. Basically, poor kids need all the stuff middle class kids take for granted. Who knew? And we can provide it to them. We just don't want to.

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is selection bias for sure; except it works in the opposite way regarding successful outcomes. IPS takes low-performing individuals and puts them in a lottery system. This differs from a charter school or other alternative schools that skirt responsibility of special needs kids... but it should bear mention that IPS is not without controversy. The lottery system causes a lot of strife in eligible-but-unpicked i…

Are the costs of these schools similar to that of a normal school, per student?

This is in the article, but the budget is $2m from the state, which is standard, plus $600k from LeBron, which is not

Re: LeBron James school that was considered an experiment is showing promise

#120

It's a shame that a private citizen has do this. Reflects poorly on our country that the economically disadvantaged really do not have a choice or a voice. And these are not people who choose to be poor or incapable. They really don't have any other option.

Um so what about the endless govt programs out there that were supposed to achieve things like this brat have failed? It's not like our country doesn't do anything - it's a very complex problem. There are efforts and they tend to have mediocre results at best. I've personally worked in some of these programs and the reality is govt just isn't well suited for the nuance and individual attention/thought different disad…

> the reality is govt just isn't well suited for the nuance and individual attention/thought different disadvantaged groups require

This is a solved problem in other countries.

Finland is a good example. Their education system focuses on equality above all: all kids are going to have access to the same educational opportunities, even if equality comes at the cost of quality. As part of this idea, privately funded schools are not allowed. Guess what happens when rich people must send their kids to public schools, in a place where all schools must be equal above all? Suddenly all the schools improve.

The problem isn't inherent to government in principle, but perhaps to our forms of government in America in practice.

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