Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

lwn.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 220 posts

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#91

Post by achompas »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #81
robg wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A party isn't a "sexualized environment". An orgy is. Let's be perfectly clear that there's a huge difference between the two. People go to parties for all sorts of reasons. Look guys, women flirt to signal interest. You can never assume anything more than that is intended. It's not fair to them and you'll look foolish (or worse) if you go too fast.

In that case, the author of the article is also wrong. There are no public sex acts, so open source conferences are similarly not sexualized environments.

A party isn't a sexualized environment unless there's some overtly-sexual influence. Similarly, open-source conferences are completely tame until the organizers hire strippers. And strippers are as "sexualized" as it gets (well, except for orgies or prostitutes).

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#92

Post by robg »

robg wrote: post #80
ErrantX wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brought the passes on herself? Yep, she did. But that is not a blame on the victim. If you wander round flirting with people they are going to make passes at you. She admits this, and seems fine with it. There is nothing wrong with wandering round being flirty, there is nothing wrong with guys taking that as a signal to make a pass at her. Feeling her up after being rejected definitely is wrong.

Depends on what you mean by a "pass". Asking a woman if you can kiss her may feel hard, but looking back on my single teenage years, that's a whole lot easier than "going for a kiss".

Let me add: If you get rejected, be gracious. Say she looks beautiful and any guy would be lucky to receive a kiss from her.

I say all this like I'm Mr. Smooth. Nothing could have been further from the truth and I've been in a committed relationship for 13 years. Watching an episode of Freaks and Geeks last night just brought back a lot of tough memories prior to meeting her.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#93

Post by pingswept »

guylhem wrote: post #88
robg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small minority of men cause the vast majority of the problem. Unfortunately it doesn't take many to create a real problem. This seems like the most important point. Moreover, it's critical that all men who see and hear of such things work to stomp them out. If individuals don't have the social skills on how to woo, it's a topic for personal discussion. Dating isn't hard if basic respect is the first item to be debu…

here a copy of an email I sent after reading that article. It's not only guys hitting girl, it can take may other forms. The problem is, being mostly outcasts, we lean to tolerate untolerable behaviour. -- Following an HN link, I read your article today on LWN http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/417952/bf6a55b67170ff0e/ and it rang a bell. There's an event I remember from a conference in LSM around 2002 IIRC in Bordeaux, F…

I think this is the crux of what happened, but I don't really understand what it means:

"he suddently turned weird. There was 2 or 3 people around, and he started telling about us about growing in Illinois, having had bullet wounds, knowing how to defend himself, and finally threatening violence."

To me, this sounds like someone with PTSD, (sort of a Walter Sobchak character, if you're familiar with The Big Lebowski). Could you explain a little more? Is the main idea that the guy threatened violence when you thought you were playing something akin to tag?

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#94

Post by acangiano »

A few thoughts:

* This is one of the most factual, well written articles that I've encountered on the subject.

* It's just sad to see socially awkward people manifest their sexual frustration in this manner. And it's even sadder to see that the few women we have in our profession feel threatened at conferences. The overwhelming majority of good people need to intervene to interrupt any form of harassment towards anyone and above all report them to whoever appropriate.

* It's important to remember that sexual harassment is not simple unwanted attention from someone you find unattractive. magamiako deleted his comment, but he was right on the money when he said that certain actions will be interpreted as innocuous flirting if the person perpetuating it is attractive, and as harassment if their are not. It may not be PC to say this, but it's important to distinguish unpleasant, but fundamentally innocuos flirting from awkward people, from bona fide sexual harassment like groping or inappropriate touching. The latter must be eliminated from tech conferences.

* Sexism and unprofessionalism can be avoided without being prudish about the content of your presentation. This is a slide I used in one of my Italian presentations. The title reads "Eye candy is important": http://grab.by/grabs/bd8b294c0aa850b4b577012a258979a3.png (Actual slides here: http://www.slideshare.net/antonio.cangiano/tu-vu-fa-lamerica...). This was just after the "CouchDB performs like a porn star" scandal, and several women at the conference complimented me for pulling it off without objectifying anyone.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#95

Post by sp332 »

nkassis wrote: post #20
Yaggo wrote: post #11

Wow, I'm truly shocked. I mean, it's 2010. Apparently there are minority of people how can't behave and ruin the reputation of the whole community. > Later someone was caught taking up-skirt photos of my friend's partner. Would be interesting to know if he was kicked out of the conference, and whether the harassment cases were reported to authorities / organizers.

Yeah I had the same reaction. Someone doing that should be reported to the police.That's just plain wrong.

(not rhetorical or trolling) What will the police do to help?

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#96

Post by pbhjpbhj »

gyardley wrote: post #89

The gender imbalance at open source conferences means that the small proportion of men throughout society that harass women have a much smaller pool of targets to choose from. The result - while open-source conferences might have the same amount of harassment per male attendee as any other conference, the percentage of female attendees affected by it is much higher. This creates dramatically different perceptions. As…

>so everyone can stay properly inhibited

I've not had a lot of contact with the autistic (or those with other mental health issues) but lacking proper social inhibitions has come up. If I were a psychologist I think that a FOSS conference would be very interesting.

Not that we're all freaks though ... nor indeed that this excuses uninhibited behaviours (and certainly not sexual assault).

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#97

Post by jedbrown »

robg wrote: post #37
rb2k_ wrote: post #33

What annoys me is that the article talks about a "problem of a sexualized environment", but the [post]( http://blog.nerdchic.net/archives/418/ ) that is being refered to describes things like this: > I lay across the bed, sat on laps, generally tried to squish in to any available space and get time to talk to all the fabulous people thronging the place. [...] I had a few drinks. I was wearing a skirt of such a length…

Flirting isn't professional when it's at an after hours party? How else should one signal that they're available and interested?

She's married, I don't think her flirting was intended as a sign of availability.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#98

Post by pbhjpbhj »

>Cat says, "If I think an event organizer turns a blind eye to questionable behavior I'll pass on the event."

I'm surprised that conference organisers would ignore sexual assault particularly with the bad press it must bring - assuming that these women are reporting the sexual assaults (someone fondling your genitals against your express will is pretty clearly sexual assault IMO).

But then if the women assaulted choose not to report such things to the police (I think the onus lies with them as opposed to any witnesses) how can the conference organisers act? They can't assume an uncharged person is guilty, can they?

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#99

Post by pbhjpbhj »

robg wrote: post #83
kahawe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. It should be much more accepted and encouraged to seek therapy or coaching when suffering from a strong lack of social skills, being very lonely or even from social anxiety or depressions. Nobody should have to carry those hurt feelings around all the time - this would also contribute a little bit to a better world ultimately.

Therapy will always seem extreme even as clinical anxiety disorders affect 40 million Americans. That's why less than 2 million of those will get adequate treatment. Guys, be good friends and ask for advice. Talk about dating and your difficulties. Your friends in relationships can really help. Just avoid the guys who speak badly of women. They're also a big part of the problem.

>Just avoid the guys who speak badly of women. They're also a big part of the problem.

I know if I ignore a problem then it always just goes away ... /sarcasm

Probably better, if you can, to stand up against people who are being badmouthed without warrant.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#100

Post by alextp »

sp332 wrote: post #95
nkassis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I had the same reaction. Someone doing that should be reported to the police.That's just plain wrong.

(not rhetorical or trolling) What will the police do to help?

Hold him, have a talk with him, let him go. This usually shakes people up and is completely legal
Post reply on HN