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The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

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Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#21

Post by Tichy »

JonnieCache wrote: post #17

The thing that shocks me is that people seem to describe so many of these incidents, yet they just seem to have passed by with little fallout. At least none was described in the article. In most circles of independent minded, proactive people (like those in the OSS scene) that I have moved in, such blatant acts of sexual assault would lead to a massive commotion, probably violence. How can you walk up behind a strang…

"without getting something broken over your head"

What is the point of getting into a potentially life-threatening situation just to teach a jerk a lesson?

As for less drastic responses, I agree that the best way to enlighten people would probably be when caught in the act. It seems unlikely that "photograph upskirt guy" is reading this article and just now it dawns on him "maybe I shouldn't have been doing that".

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#22

Post by Tichy »

cturner wrote: post #14
lhnn wrote: post #10

I get tired of women complaining about sexism in the startup/tech field. Yes, ladies, you will be hit on a lot at a conference filled with mostly guys. You are an attractive minority. Now, to the point: --- There is no excuse for physical assault. I can even almost excuse a guy going in for a peck, but grab-ass and worse are not cool. If you're going to proposition a girl, do it with your wits and your words, not a f…

It's interesting that you agree with the points, but put your tiredness down to the complaints of the affected women. Of the things on offer, that's an odd thing to put your frustration down to. I think it would be better to be tired of the guys who act like jerks and ruin things for everyone else.

I wonder how many guys are being enlightened by reading this thread on HN right now. My guess would be zero.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#23

Post by kahawe »

btilly wrote: post #5

Ah, yes. I remember once casually joking at a get together, Someone needs to tell ESR that he's not God's gift to women. When everyone was done laughing, it turned out that both women present at the table had actually been propositioned by ESR. (And had turned him down.) A small minority of men cause the vast majority of the problem. Unfortunately it doesn't take many to create a real problem.

With all due respect, someone should also tell ESR that he's not God's gift to geeks, hackers, free/open software/source, the internet or computers in general.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#24

Post by JonnieCache »

Tichy wrote: post #21
JonnieCache wrote: post #17

The thing that shocks me is that people seem to describe so many of these incidents, yet they just seem to have passed by with little fallout. At least none was described in the article. In most circles of independent minded, proactive people (like those in the OSS scene) that I have moved in, such blatant acts of sexual assault would lead to a massive commotion, probably violence. How can you walk up behind a strang…

"without getting something broken over your head" What is the point of getting into a potentially life-threatening situation just to teach a jerk a lesson? As for less drastic responses, I agree that the best way to enlighten people would probably be when caught in the act. It seems unlikely that "photograph upskirt guy" is reading this article and just now it dawns on him "maybe I shouldn't have been doing that".

I'm not advocating breaking things over peoples heads. I'm saying that I'm shocked that the heads of said upskirt photographers havent been used to break anything yet.

It shows a level of restraint that is certainly morally commendable, whether it has benefitted the community long term I am not so sure.

> What is the point of getting into a potentially life-threatening situation just to teach a jerk a lesson?

What is the point of getting into a potentially life-threatening situation just to be on the other side of a street? Your question is tautological.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#25

Post by masterponomo »

I'm sure this will sound sexist as well, but the chivalrous guys far outnumber the jerks. If someone crosses the line, by all means call the cops but also consider making an immediate and loud protest, and you might get help from an ad hoc group of temporary big (or little) brothers. A black eye and split lip might be the quickest way to teach some of these guys the right way to act.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#26

Post by forgotusername »

trevi wrote: post #13
forgotusername wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to have died, or migrated to more appropriate fora. Thankfully.

By the way who really uses fora as the plural of forum? To me it seems at best arbitrary, at worst pretentious.

I'm sorry, next time I'll uses "forumses". Damn ecomony got all these morans backs up!

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#27

Post by Waywocket »

mahmud wrote: post #15
trevi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way who really uses fora as the plural of forum? To me it seems at best arbitrary, at worst pretentious.

Pretension and grammar-Nazism are the virii of online communication.

I see what you did there.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#28

Post by robg »

btilly wrote: post #5

Ah, yes. I remember once casually joking at a get together, Someone needs to tell ESR that he's not God's gift to women. When everyone was done laughing, it turned out that both women present at the table had actually been propositioned by ESR. (And had turned him down.) A small minority of men cause the vast majority of the problem. Unfortunately it doesn't take many to create a real problem.

A small minority of men cause the vast majority of the problem. Unfortunately it doesn't take many to create a real problem.

This seems like the most important point. Moreover, it's critical that all men who see and hear of such things work to stomp them out. If individuals don't have the social skills on how to woo, it's a topic for personal discussion. Dating isn't hard if basic respect is the first item to be debugged.

It makes me think of pg's nerd essay and with having just found the fantastic TV show Freaks and Geeks. Sexual socialization ripens when we're most vulnerable. If those hurts are carried into adulthood by otherwise successful people, we need to work as a community to help our friends and colleagues along.

EDIT: For a more positive final note.

Re: The dark side of open source conferences [about women being harassed]

#29

Post by iwr »

mahmud wrote: post #15
trevi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way who really uses fora as the plural of forum? To me it seems at best arbitrary, at worst pretentious.

Pretension and grammar-Nazism are the virii of online communication.

You must mean pretentiousness, surely.
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