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Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#231

Post by Blackstone4 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #205
brudgers wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through no fault of the author, this comment thread explains the trick. The article talks about US health care access but the discussion quickly goes off into the weeds of the US health insurance market. As soon as we start talking about premiums we adopt business language and metrics and abandon medical language and metrics. All that money is pocketed by businesses run for profit. It's pocketed because it can be. It…

> As soon as we start talking about premiums we adopt business language and metrics and abandon medical language and metrics. To provide healthcare you need doctors, who need money to pay rent and student loans. You need an office to put the doctors in. You need drugs and medical devices, and researchers to come up with them. You need lawyers to keep the doctors from conducting the Tuskegee Experiment. And nurses and…

The US has by far the highest pharma/biotech drug prices in the world. They are effectively paying for global R&D. Other countries use collective bargaining and government regulation to negotiate price. If I'm correct this is illegal in the US.

In the UK for instance, we do not have access to the best drugs because they are too expensive.

A large part of US insurance expenditure goes to pharma...

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#232

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

brudgers wrote: post #209
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as we start talking about premiums we adopt business language and metrics and abandon medical language and metrics. To provide healthcare you need doctors, who need money to pay rent and student loans. You need an office to put the doctors in. You need drugs and medical devices, and researchers to come up with them. You need lawyers to keep the doctors from conducting the Tuskegee Experiment. And nurses and…

And yet, here we are talking about business instead of health.

Because its a scam to extract the maximum amount of wealth from people with no real choice options out. And the ilusion, that in this stick-up of scenarios, the individual is to be able to engage in a free-market decision.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#233

Post by mac01021 »

sjg007 wrote: post #226
mac01021 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what do you think that? You can be happy, healthy, and safe, even if you have to share a kitchen and bathroom. Single-resident dwellings are the exception throughout human history. Not that I necessarily disagree with you - I'm still figuring out how exactly to think about this issue.

It’s based on universal human rights.

Which ones, though?

I can imagine a utopian city where everyone lives in dorms and uses public dining and bath facilities. In that thought experiment, it's hard to feel like anyone's rights are being trampled.

And it's not clear that sharing a flat with another person has to be a worse arrangement than that.

PS: Did you really feel that anyone would find that answer helpful? Or was it just a veiled rendition of "clearly, if you disagree with me then you are a priori too morally bankrupt to have this conversation"? The latter attitude is poor approach to dealing with people who might otherwise be persuaded to your way of thinking.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#234

Post by sdoering »

epncs wrote: post #93
anbop wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect that a bank teller has their own apartment? Your own apartment isn’t some kind of birthright. I had roommates until I was 27.

Having a full time job and not being able to afford to have your own place is simply miserable.

And why is that, that you think so?

Why should anyone have the right to their own place?

Asking from a point of genuine curiosity. Had not thought about that much until now.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#235

Post by tomjen3 »

brudgers wrote: post #135
peteradio wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid 400 dollars to have a doctor tell me to neti pot my nose after having sinus infection for 3 months. Might not be rational but fuck everything about this system. Who is pocketing all this goddamn money?

Through no fault of the author, this comment thread explains the trick. The article talks about US health care access but the discussion quickly goes off into the weeds of the US health insurance market. As soon as we start talking about premiums we adopt business language and metrics and abandon medical language and metrics. All that money is pocketed by businesses run for profit. It's pocketed because it can be. It…

But so is food, and while I probably won't die in the next 6 months from lack of medical attention, if the groceries shut down I would.

Yet the US medical system is a giant clusterfuck of burned money, and the US food system can provide food at some of the lowest prices in the developed world. US chicken is half what I have to pay in Europe.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#236

Post by apexalpha »

tomjen3 wrote: post #235
brudgers wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through no fault of the author, this comment thread explains the trick. The article talks about US health care access but the discussion quickly goes off into the weeds of the US health insurance market. As soon as we start talking about premiums we adopt business language and metrics and abandon medical language and metrics. All that money is pocketed by businesses run for profit. It's pocketed because it can be. It…

But so is food, and while I probably won't die in the next 6 months from lack of medical attention, if the groceries shut down I would. Yet the US medical system is a giant clusterfuck of burned money, and the US food system can provide food at some of the lowest prices in the developed world. US chicken is half what I have to pay in Europe.

That is a choice regarding animal welfare and food standards, though. Not because the EU doesn't know how to produce chickens efficiently.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#237

Post by DangitBobby »

koolba wrote: post #185
ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #171

Why why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.

Because the vast majority of people have coverage through work and the fear of unknown changes in coverage is greater than (potentially) saving some money. Throw in Medicare (old people) and Medicaid (poverty) and I think you’re somewhere around 85% of the populace covered. The vocal minority of people who do not have health insurance through work, not receiving subsidies, not receiving Medicare, and not receiving Me…

Hello, just thought you should know that you're completely incorrect. I make a decent income and have an excellent healthcare plan which costs me about 7% of my pre-tax income. My copays and out of pocket max are low enough that I can use this plan at will when I feel like I need to.

However, since my friends and family do not all have decent insurance and cannot cover their high deductibles if things go even slightly wrong, and since I personally was in a place not so long ago of delaying treatment on an ongoing health problem I've been having due to a lapse in coverage due to a job change, and since my loved ones have recently been in financial situations that disincentivize them from getting treatment to improve their quality of life, I would be happy to pay (ahem) higher taxes (what's a premium again?) in exchange for peace of mind regarding my future health and that of my loved ones.

And the health of people that I do not even know.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#238

Post by DangitBobby »

austincheney wrote: post #229
saagarjha wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the point was that aircraft carriers are more expensive than no aircraft carriers.

Possibly, but the point was poorly formed, lacked specificity, and is outside the scope of conversation.

A common talking point is about how we spend y on the military_thing when we could be spending on y on problem_x. Seemed fairly obvious in the context of this discussion.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#239

Post by DangitBobby »

JonGarfield wrote: post #217
rrrrreeeee wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some blatant misinformation. In Canada you don't wait for treatment. If you need treatment, you will be treated. Stop spreading some garbage myth.

I don't know where you live in Canada, but that's not entirely true. There are long waits for some procedures (far longer than medically indicated) and a significant number of people cannot access primary care because of the shortage of GPs (especially in rural areas). I would still, 100%, rather live in Canada than the US but your comment (intentionally or not) completely glosses over the waiting lists for some medi…

People in the US see short lines and think "wow I can use our system whenever I want" instead of "wow our system is so expensive that it's usage is much lower than capacity".

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#240

Post by DangitBobby »

peteradio wrote: post #117
jfk13 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, actually. Unless you have figured out some previously-unknown way to successfully educate the entire population to be financially responsible?

We do have public education but I suppose its too much to make this sort of thing mandatory.

Clearly that's not enough. Asserting that it should be and doing what amounts to punishing people because you don't like the way they are isn't going to help.
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