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Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#181

Post by joering2 »

samirillian wrote: post #150
brudgers wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through no fault of the author, this comment thread explains the trick. The article talks about US health care access but the discussion quickly goes off into the weeds of the US health insurance market. As soon as we start talking about premiums we adopt business language and metrics and abandon medical language and metrics. All that money is pocketed by businesses run for profit. It's pocketed because it can be. It…

You make it sound like the business isn't run by humans. Do you consider price gouging sick people and ethical business to get into? If not, please make that a bit more clear in your comment.

Being run by humans doesn't mean there is empathy built-in; to the contrary because its run by masses of humans, its out of touch with reality and majority of involved will tell you someone else makes final decision, while the rest will simply follow others. Its as numb as long hand of government can be. They don't see human patients with names and families, they same charts and graphs with numbers and profit/loss cells combined.

Its not ethical business but ethics doesn't matter much these days (devil's advocate here); heck one can argue even legality doesn't matter, as for example Wells Fargo has been getting away with daylight theft that would put a single person in prison for one million years.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#182

Post by war1025 »

mises wrote: post #98
war1025 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government doesn't hold anyone's money hostage. You are free to adjust your W-4 withholdings any time you want. They even have an online calculator to estimate your tax burden and set your withholding properly.

Yes they do, because there is still employer withholding. Almost 75% of Americans had too much withheld: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/01/30-million-americans-are-not... And if you don't believe me on the reducing-sticker-shock part, here's a quote from the Treasury: "it... greatly reduced the taxpayer's awareness of the amount of tax being collected, i.e. it reduced the transparency of the tax, which made it easier t…

For the record, I make good income for the area, which isn't amazing, and also have three kids. I had no federal tax burden this year and was in fact reimbursed $1800 of surplus child tax credit. So I find it hard to believe the poor are paying too much in taxes if they are anywhere near the same boat as me.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#183

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mgkimsal wrote: post #120
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars HDHPs are a great deal for anyone who can set aside the deductible’s value in cash. They are a bad default. But a good thing to consider if you can set aside some cash. (The problem with HSA-compatible plans is they have a maximum deductible. They’re thus almost as expensive as non-HDHP plans.)

why is it a problem to have a maximum deductible? Relatedly, it seems like there's roughly some 'max' insurance expects you to pay each year, and you can decide whether to take the risk using a high deductible plan, and potentially not have many expenses, but lower premium, or have higher premium up front. 8 years ago, our HDHP was ... $280/month. It's now north of $800, and the deductible went up. Yes, we're a bit o…

> why is it a problem to have a maximum deductible?

Because it means I get to choose between $500 a month with a $6,500 deductible, and HSA-compatibility, and $150 a month with a $8,000 deductible. The latter is a better fit for my risk profile.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#184

Post by themagician »

ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #171

Why why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.

We have 11 nuclear powered aircraft carriers in service in four more on the way. No money for healthcare.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#185

Post by koolba »

ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #171

Why why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.

Because the vast majority of people have coverage through work and the fear of unknown changes in coverage is greater than (potentially) saving some money. Throw in Medicare (old people) and Medicaid (poverty) and I think you’re somewhere around 85% of the populace covered.

The vocal minority of people who do not have health insurance through work, not receiving subsidies, not receiving Medicare, and not receiving Medicaid are the ones clamoring for universal healthcare. Just because they’re loud doesn’t mean they reflect the will of the masses.

Vocal minorities don’t win elections. They just get a lot of news coverage.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#186

Post by ipad23 »

ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #171

Why why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.

Many of these articles exaggerate the price of healthcare in the US. I'm an independent contractor and pay for my own health insurance. My wife and I together cost less that 500/month (universal care would take way more in taxes) Checkups are covered, prescriptions are mostly free or very inexpensive, and if I do have an emergency, I don't need to wait 6 months to get treated, like in the UK or Canada. I also get some of the best doctors in the world.

A good test of a country's quality of healthcare is where people that don't have to worry about money go to get treated....that's currently the US.

It has problems, but sacrificing quality for nationalization is not the solution.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#187

Post by exabrial »

bryan11 wrote: post #102

As employers switch to High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars, many people are delaying health care in general. A doctor's visit that once cost a co-pay of $30 is now frequently a cash price from $130 to $400, plus more for lab work. With higher costs and much of them unknown in advance, many skip getting things checked until it seems…

Actually I find that with my high ductable Health Plan, my visits did not change price. And you failed to mention how you get to save/grow/spend your money tax free. I made 12% on my HSA last great and didn't pay a dime of tax.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#188

Post by ghufran_syed »

ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #171

Why why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.

Because Americans think it will be about as effective as the VA. I used to work in the NHS, and it has a lot of good points, but rationing is an inevitable part of care when "everything" is free at the point of use:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/elderly-go-blind-as-nhs-i...

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#189

Post by austincheney »

themagician wrote: post #184
ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #171

Why why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.

We have 11 nuclear powered aircraft carriers in service in four more on the way. No money for healthcare.

Nuclear powered aircraft carriers are cheaper than diesel powered aircraft carriers.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#190

Post by chrisseaton »

ipad23 wrote: post #186
ed_elliott_asc wrote: post #171

Why why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.

Many of these articles exaggerate the price of healthcare in the US. I'm an independent contractor and pay for my own health insurance. My wife and I together cost less that 500/month (universal care would take way more in taxes) Checkups are covered, prescriptions are mostly free or very inexpensive, and if I do have an emergency, I don't need to wait 6 months to get treated, like in the UK or Canada. I also get som…

> Many of these articles exaggerate the price of healthcare in the US. I'm an independent contractor and pay for my own health insurance. My wife and I together cost less that 500/month

Do you think $500 a month is cheap? That's insane - that's about a quarter of my entire income tax in the UK.

> It has problems, but sacrificing quality for nationalization is not the solution.

But both life expectancy is lower and infant mortality is higher in the US than in the UK.

What quality do you think you'd be sacrificing? I'm getting better life expectancy and infant mortality than you are, and I'm paying a lot less than you are.

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