Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#111

Post by peteradio » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:07 PM UTC

captainredbeard wrote: post #89

shams93 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there was a great breakdown of this when the representative from Irvine, California grilled CEO Jaimie Dimon, a bank teller who lives in Irvine makes $15 an hour, basically such a person if they have their own apartment will be forced to choose between having food and having a phone. We have kept salaries frozen for so many decades that we have impoverished the majority of working people to a ridiculous level. A…

Maybe they should move?

That is the fundamental problem isn't it. Mobility.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#112

Post by gmanley » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:08 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #55

fma wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep... Even car sales increase because people have money for the down-payment. A large population of Americans do not have much savings. Could be bad money management, low paying jobs, bad luck (health issues) etc.

Phht, bad money management. When loan sharks are peddling 450% payday loans people are being taken advantage of by corporations. The government needs to practice better money management, not us private citizens. Close tax loopholes.

You'll find payday loans at upwards of ~1700 percent, depending on state regulations. It's pretty ridiculous.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#113

Post by sjg007 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:09 PM UTC

anbop wrote: post #85

shams93 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there was a great breakdown of this when the representative from Irvine, California grilled CEO Jaimie Dimon, a bank teller who lives in Irvine makes $15 an hour, basically such a person if they have their own apartment will be forced to choose between having food and having a phone. We have kept salaries frozen for so many decades that we have impoverished the majority of working people to a ridiculous level. A…

Why would you expect that a bank teller has their own apartment? Your own apartment isn’t some kind of birthright. I had roommates until I was 27.

I think it is reasonable as a society that we should have options for living alone that are affordable.. or otherwise pay living wages.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#114

Post by iygghnkufdv » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #91

anbop wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect that a bank teller has their own apartment? Your own apartment isn’t some kind of birthright. I had roommates until I was 27.

Someone who has full time job should have some semblance of independence. I'm dreading the day that homes are just owned by your employer so you can keep the slaves working for you forever.

And then we will live in our cars, and they're already enforcing that as illegal too :)

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#115

Post by 0n0n0m0uz » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

Would you pay a few % more in taxes knowing that every human in this nation could receive the healthcare they need? I would without a second thought.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#116

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #108

bryan11 wrote: post #102

As employers switch to High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars, many people are delaying health care in general. A doctor's visit that once cost a co-pay of $30 is now frequently a cash price from $130 to $400, plus more for lab work. With higher costs and much of them unknown in advance, many skip getting things checked until it seems…

> High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars HDHPs are a great deal for anyone who can set aside the deductible’s value in cash. They are a bad default. But a good thing to consider if you can set aside some cash. (The problem with HSA-compatible plans is they have a maximum deductible. They’re thus almost as expensive as non-HDHP plans.)

There is definitely a psychological problem. When I had a high deductible plan I always set the max aside but considering the potential cost of a doctors visit I often hesitated. 1000 dollars is still 1000 dollars even if you have set them aside beforehand.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#117

Post by peteradio » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

jfk13 wrote: post #24

lotsofpulp wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage.

It is, actually. Unless you have figured out some previously-unknown way to successfully educate the entire population to be financially responsible?

We do have public education but I suppose its too much to make this sort of thing mandatory.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#118

Post by burlesona » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

Mindless2112 wrote: post #66

kartan wrote: post #32

> Out-of-pocket medical spending jumps once the money hits people’s bank accounts. It is a bad thing that tax withholding is one of the few ways Americans can have savings. When you live check to check this can be your only option.

That tax withholding is the only way that many Americans manage to save speaks more to a lack of self-control than anything else. If Uncle Sam can save a lump-sum for you by deducting from your paycheck, you could have done the same (in fact, better) with a bit of resolve and a bank account.

It's not necessarily that simple.

I would say that for most Americans who are cash poor, they intentionally do not optimize their taxes to break even, but rather to ensure they never end up owing the government money at the end of the year.

The rationale for this is pretty simple. Even if you're poor, $50 a month in extra income isn't going to make or break you, but an unexpected bill for $600 in April can really mess you up. On the other hand, just going with max withholdings and discovering in April that you get $600 back from the government is a nice bonus.

It's not the "optimal" decision from a finance perspective, but for a lot of people it works better in real life.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#119

Post by delfinom » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

0n0n0m0uz wrote: post #115

Would you pay a few % more in taxes knowing that every human in this nation could receive the healthcare they need? I would without a second thought.

Few more in taxes? Maybe we can redirect some funds pocketed by the military industrial complex instead. Though Boeing and others will fight to the death over their infinite money supply/bailouts.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#120

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #108

bryan11 wrote: post #102

As employers switch to High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars, many people are delaying health care in general. A doctor's visit that once cost a co-pay of $30 is now frequently a cash price from $130 to $400, plus more for lab work. With higher costs and much of them unknown in advance, many skip getting things checked until it seems…

> High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars HDHPs are a great deal for anyone who can set aside the deductible’s value in cash. They are a bad default. But a good thing to consider if you can set aside some cash. (The problem with HSA-compatible plans is they have a maximum deductible. They’re thus almost as expensive as non-HDHP plans.)

why is it a problem to have a maximum deductible?

Relatedly, it seems like there's roughly some 'max' insurance expects you to pay each year, and you can decide whether to take the risk using a high deductible plan, and potentially not have many expenses, but lower premium, or have higher premium up front.

8 years ago, our HDHP was ... $280/month. It's now north of $800, and the deductible went up. Yes, we're a bit older, too but it's still a bit crazy.

$280/month, with high deductible, meant that, in a bad year, we might have $15k in expenses before the insurance covered everything else. Now, it's more like $10k per year in premiums, and another $10k+ before insurance really would kick in. Catastrophic need? It's fine - I don't want to have to face a $400k bill. Day to day? This stinks.