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VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

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Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a minute, there is tracking involved in a code editor? No, it's not in anyone's best interest. It can't be. Any info collected with tracking could also be used for other, malign purposes, covertly and illegally. I understand your perspective, I wish it was true as a fact. But it isn't. What I've learned in the recent years - don't trust anything that tracks and collects data unless it's your own thing.

There's a pretty wide area between a skeptic and a conspiracy theorist, but this kind of mentality certainly leans toward the latter. Logic dictates it's vastly more likely the data collected is to improve the editor, than a multi-national multi-billion dollar company collecting data to use it illegally.

Great-grandparent OP was most accurate in that this crowd cares most about privacy regardless of what it is used for, and that it would have little utility outside of this crowd, but your dismissive response is as if you've been in a coma for 10 years.

As grandparent OP said, in recent years this has moved waaaaay beyond theory territory and been shown time and time again that + NSA + FBI + CIA + intelligence agencies around the world all employ different ways of collecting analytical data broadcast over the internet.

NSA just taps the servers without telling anyone.

FBI sends National Security Letters containing gag orders preventing companies from telling you that the federal government is now a data sharing partner.

CIA just pays companies for it.

FISA court issues secret rulings justifying the legality of it all.

Whether that bothers you or not is up to you. Most people don't care. I usually don't. I wouldn't say "logic dictates this won't happen" when it is pretty much only the multi-national multi-billion dollar companies subject to this kind of tampering, and most incentivized to monetize the analytics by allowing these and unknown third parties in.

To avoid the security exhaustion, some people would simply prefer their text editor not be "smart", which is a euphemism for internet connected.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#192

There's already a comment here, and I've also personally experienced just from talking with others offline, that a lot of people don't even know VSCode had telemetry, despite it mentioned several times in the product itself and its documentation. They (and remember, these people are supposedly developers ) either ignored it, or just didn't read the docs. I guess a big WARNING banner might scare users away, but it's s…

Telemetry is all about how it’s presented to the user. It should simply be presented at install/first start and users should be shown the checkbox (it shouldn’t be hidden away in settings) and asked nicely to leave it on in order to improve the product. Checked by default is a hot topic but I think it is OK so long as it’s presented clearly to the user. I mean obviously I wouldn’t like any of the information I handle…

Precisely! Albeit I am a bit surprised our infosec team seemingly haven't cracked down or made a stance just yet on Kite and other telemetry software for developers. That day will come soon I am sure :)

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#193

There's already a comment here, and I've also personally experienced just from talking with others offline, that a lot of people don't even know VSCode had telemetry, despite it mentioned several times in the product itself and its documentation. They (and remember, these people are supposedly developers ) either ignored it, or just didn't read the docs. I guess a big WARNING banner might scare users away, but it's s…

Off topic but from a podcast I was listening to recently: your most valuable asset is your team, not your code. This is evidenced by exits - without the team the codebase ain’t worth much.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bold claim. If the tool is made more useful for majority of the people using it is necessarily not a bad thing.

The Americans with Disabilities Act, which can be used to sue developers of inaccessible websites, has made it clear that in some cases serving the majority can be a bad thing. Less severely, there's an awful lot of long tail business productivity served by obscure software features that is very difficult to satisfy with modern hyper-engagement-optimized tools.

I'm pretty sure there are false dichotomies going on here.

Software products may be developed for a mass audience or they may be developed for a narrow niche.

In either case, making the product accessible to people with disabilities is something developers should try to do.

And in every case, having data on user behaviour, software performance, bugs, crashes, etc, will enable the developer to do a better job of catering to their users' needs.

Have I missed something about how these objectives must be mutually exclusive?

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#195
If you are concerned with privacy and use any Microsoft products (you're already making a mistake by doing so in the first place but) I would recommend, by default, blocking all Internet access to/from the host (edit: by default; make exceptions as needed, obviously).

I've got one Windows machine here, just so I can run one specific client that I have to use for an internally-hosted application. That machine doesn't have a default route, just a single static route that lets it communicate with the (internal) things it needs to and, just for good measure, there are firewall rules (on the router connected to my upstream) that block any traffic to/from this machine and the Internet. (Sadly, I would not be surprised to learn that it can "fallback" to using DNS queries or some such to report back to the mothership.)

I think we'll eventually get to the point where, in general, devices won't have a default route. It might take a while, though -- currently, way too many people are still completely okay with every device and application they use spying on them and reporting back on what they do.

So-called "default deny" firewall policies for incoming traffic are pretty common nowadays. I can't wait for "default deny" policies for outbound traffic to become standard as well.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#196
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the telemetry data made public? If it's not, then it could be manipulated to justify arbitrary decisions from MS

Why would they make arbitrary decisions that run contrary to what the telemetry data shows? That just doesn't make sense.

To gain cheap trust from people by saying "trust us, the data shows it"

I can think of two reasons for the data to be made public :

- for trust and transparency purposes : It is for the same reason than an election system should be observable and reproducible, from data collection to final decision, including counting methods, etc. Otherwise it would be like "trust us, the data shows it" and you don't show the data to anyone to prove it.

- for coordination and sharing knowledge : some people might interpret the data differently, chose to focus on a niche market by doing different bets than MS, and create a complementary editor to the one from MS. MS has no obligation to support minorities, but someone else might be interested, and those minorities are detectable in the data

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#197

There's already a comment here, and I've also personally experienced just from talking with others offline, that a lot of people don't even know VSCode had telemetry, despite it mentioned several times in the product itself and its documentation. They (and remember, these people are supposedly developers ) either ignored it, or just didn't read the docs. I guess a big WARNING banner might scare users away, but it's s…

It may be disturbing, but it is entirely understandable that no one reads the EULA. If I read all the terms and policies for every piece of software and site I use, I would be doing that full time.

Companies have basically DoS attacked the public by attaching pages of legalese to anything and everything.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#198

There's already a comment here, and I've also personally experienced just from talking with others offline, that a lot of people don't even know VSCode had telemetry, despite it mentioned several times in the product itself and its documentation. They (and remember, these people are supposedly developers ) either ignored it, or just didn't read the docs. I guess a big WARNING banner might scare users away, but it's s…

It may be disturbing, but it is entirely understandable that no one reads the EULA. If I read all the terms and policies for every piece of software and site I use, I would be doing that full time. Companies have basically DoS attacked the public by attaching pages of legalese to anything and everything.

>Companies have basically DoS attacked the public by attaching pages of legalese to anything and everything.

It's DDoS. You could read one EULA, but there are way too many, it's a distributed attack.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#199

There's already a comment here, and I've also personally experienced just from talking with others offline, that a lot of people don't even know VSCode had telemetry, despite it mentioned several times in the product itself and its documentation. They (and remember, these people are supposedly developers ) either ignored it, or just didn't read the docs. I guess a big WARNING banner might scare users away, but it's s…

Telemetry is all about how it’s presented to the user. It should simply be presented at install/first start and users should be shown the checkbox (it shouldn’t be hidden away in settings) and asked nicely to leave it on in order to improve the product. Checked by default is a hot topic but I think it is OK so long as it’s presented clearly to the user. I mean obviously I wouldn’t like any of the information I handle…

>I mean obviously I wouldn’t like any of the information I handle to be sent somewhere, but I also don’t mind statistics about that info (number of files, file sizes, feature use count) to be sent to Microsoft. If I found out that file contents was transmitted then obviously I’d be outraged - but I’m rational and assume Microsoft is too.

Exactly, telemetry on a broad level is important to find out if your software has problems. The problem is what kind of telemetry you have.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#200

There's already a comment here, and I've also personally experienced just from talking with others offline, that a lot of people don't even know VSCode had telemetry, despite it mentioned several times in the product itself and its documentation. They (and remember, these people are supposedly developers ) either ignored it, or just didn't read the docs. I guess a big WARNING banner might scare users away, but it's s…

> They (and remember, these people are supposedly developers) either ignored it, or just didn't read the docs. Or they forgot and their stance on it changed. I vaguely remembered (or thought I did) having seen it. Just checked my settings and it's disabled. I've gotten way more privacy minded in the last 24 months, so I figured I might have said "yeah, you can collect data" back when I first installed it, but now I'd…

I have it enabled on my personal computer, but disabled on my work computer. I like them improving their product, so I want to support that, but at work it's a bit different.
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