YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#101

Post by luckylion » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

skilled wrote: post #51

The Trending page has been listing the same people over and over and over again for the last 3 years. It's shameful, pathetic, and makes the platform feel extremely biased. Seriously though. This is unacceptable and overly controlled. Not to mention that those people over the last 3 years post borderline brainwash content without any connection to a real audience. It's pretty sad to see YouTube turn into something li…

> The Trending page has been listing the same people over and over and over again for the last 3 years.

Skytube (android app for YT that I like because it allows shutting off the screen while playing) does call it "Recommended", and that feels more accurate. I agree that the Trending page is terrible. When I was more active on youtube, I hid it from my browser because I often couldn't resist the temptation to open it and then regretted it soon afterwards.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#102

Post by Mirioron » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

xxpor wrote: post #26

AlexB138 wrote: post #21

What a dystopian nightmare the internet is turning into. Anything that isn't in line with "right thought" isn't Responsible and is therefore hidden away? How did we end up here? How did Silicon Valley go from a place focused on ideas and building the future to generating systematic censorship and endless puritanical moral panic? We badly need some new blood guiding tech development.

The internet has operated that way forever. Most hosts haven't allowed porn since the beginning of time. You're still free to make your own video hosting website if you'd like. Liveleak still exists.

>You're still free to make your own video hosting website if you'd like.

Websites like Gab started going down that path. Suddenly it becomes "you're free to make your own payment processor" and then it'll be "you're free to make your own bank". Do you think it'll stop there or do we need to make our own country too just to run a website that's not interfered with because they allow opinions some people don't like?

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#103

Post by zwkrt » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #52

bitxbit wrote: post #25

Please just give us the ability to blacklist channels. That’d increase usability by 10x for me.

AFAIK you can do that? Hit the menu on a video recommendation, "Not Interested" -> "Tell Us Why" -> "I'm not interested in this channel". IMO, though, blacklisting has been mostly proven to be insufficient. If you block, say, noted chud Sargon of Akkad, that doesn't mean that another half-dozen "Rationalist" "Thinkers" Who Just Happen To Be Chuds won't be recommended to you as well.

If you are getting suggested these things it's because people with similar viewing habits as you watched them. I get suggested riposte videos to such content without ever seeing the original "bad" video. I'm assuming this is based on my own habits on the site. I would prefer getting neither, but here we are.

To claim that blacklisting would be ineffective because there is always more trash is disingenuous. If everyone blocked (e.g.) PewDiePie, surely they would get less YouTube talking-head content.

It's like saying that we shouldn't/can't avoid candy because people are always making new candies.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#104

Post by luckylion » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

ses1984 wrote: post #10

twanvl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds easy to abuse. Just create some users, have them like obvious bad videos, then have them like videos of .

Literally any algorithm that simple is easy to abuse, you need to integrate any algorithm with fraud detection and user trustworthiness assessment.

Either Twitter figured that they don't care enough, or it's not that easy. Mass-flagging is still a thing they haven't solved, and what are you going to do? Kick out your users because they're trying to manipulate your powerful algorithm to do their bidding? There's easier ways to make your audience find a new platform.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#105

Post by krapp » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:43 PM UTC

Mirioron wrote: post #102

xxpor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet has operated that way forever. Most hosts haven't allowed porn since the beginning of time. You're still free to make your own video hosting website if you'd like. Liveleak still exists.

> You're still free to make your own video hosting website if you'd like. Websites like Gab started going down that path. Suddenly it becomes "you're free to make your own payment processor" and then it'll be "you're free to make your own bank". Do you think it'll stop there or do we need to make our own country too just to run a website that's not interfered with because they allow opinions some people don't like?

[flagged]

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#106

Post by Mirioron » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #11

On a side note, the creators of YouTube ought to [at least informally] unionize. There's no reason Adam Neely should be getting copyright "strikes" for explaining music to the masses, or Cody's Lab should be forced to take down videos on mining with explosives [on his family's ranch]. YouTube needs to have a hotline for problem solving for their most profitable content providers, and until the creators collectively h…

YouTubers won't unionize. There's no way that's going to happen after what MCNs did. People aren't going to trust new organizations coming along promising the same things.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#107

Post by forgottenpass » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

noego wrote: post #71

CharlesW wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, it's pretty ridiculous that YouTube is being pressured to police the content on its platform. It's not "ridiculous", it's table stakes. If you ever run an open community, you'll find that bad actors are inevitable.

What are these bad actors doing that requires top-down censorship and marginalization?

>What are these bad actors doing

As far as I can tell the problem is that they scare sheltered white people.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#108

Post by luckylion » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:47 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #79

noego wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it not an open marketplace? The very bias introduced by platform like YouTube which you seem to be defending? Is the average person so dumb that they cannot distinguish between "sound argument" vs "intimidate and disconcert"? If that's how you feel about the average person, why do you still favor democracy?

People aren't dumb, but I think people have poor information literacy skills, which is linked to the decline in liberal arts education in favor of the emphasis on STEM education. The lack of these skills leads to people being unable to distinguish between "sound argument" vs "intimidate and disconcert" (again, not related to their intelligence, this is a developed skill). https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10858.html…

> People aren't dumb, but I think people have poor information literacy skills, which is linked to the decline in liberal arts education in favor of the emphasis on STEM education.

Citation needed. Obviously, people from the humanities believe that they are very important and should be paid a lot to shepherd society, but that's not enough to convince me.

Edit: Sorry, due to serial flagging thanks to this I can't reply. I don't care enough about this to retry later and get flagged again. Emotions apparently run too high if it concerns worldviews.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#109

Post by godshatter » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

Zenst wrote: post #67

nafey wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would actually be glad if some of the more extreme and irresponsible opinions are deplatformed. It cant be argued that Youtube is expected to platform all range of opinions. There is however a strong likelihood of this being exploited by Youtube for its own purposes.

Deplatforming, blocking, label and dismissing as forms of dealing with `extremes`, is not only a bad solution, but only fuels those extremes - driving them into their own confirmation bubbles and onto more dangerous forms of outletting their opinions. What needs to happen is solid debate, constructivly listening and then disseminating and showing what they are wrong about and why, with proof. As for platforms, deplat…

> What needs to happen is solid debate, constructivly listening and then disseminating and showing what they are wrong about and why, with proof.

And also the tougher part, actually being prepared to admit that they might be right about some parts of what they say, interspersed with the things you disagree with. That is what makes a conversation about it fruitful.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#110

Post by Mirioron » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #105

Mirioron wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're still free to make your own video hosting website if you'd like. Websites like Gab started going down that path. Suddenly it becomes "you're free to make your own payment processor" and then it'll be "you're free to make your own bank". Do you think it'll stop there or do we need to make our own country too just to run a website that's not interfered with because they allow opinions some people don't like?

[flagged]

That's the problem: people that have nothing to do with nazis are labeled nazis and then get deplatformed.

How many damn nazis do you think there are that we need entire services demonetized because of them?