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YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

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Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#61

What a dystopian nightmare the internet is turning into. Anything that isn't in line with "right thought" isn't Responsible and is therefore hidden away? How did we end up here? How did Silicon Valley go from a place focused on ideas and building the future to generating systematic censorship and endless puritanical moral panic? We badly need some new blood guiding tech development.

>How did we end up here? [...] systematic censorship and endless puritanical moral panic?

The reason is advertising money is what funds Youtube. Ultimately, this means Google has to make sure their videos are mostly "advertiser-friendly"[0]. This unavoidable editorial tension is what the prior boycott incident (Adpocalypse[1]) was all about.

>We badly need some new blood guiding tech development.

It's not just a new programming team with different ideals. You need a new funding model.

The obvious alternative is to create a video site that doesn't depend on advertisers. With no ad sponsorships as a revenue constraint, what options does that leave us?

(a) paid subscription or donation websites. But most viewers don't have money to pay for a youtube-clone with non-ad-friendly videos. Even if they did have discretionary income, they wouldn't pay for it anyway. (Example of users overwhelmingly preferring ads over paying an insignificant 8 cents per month.[2])

(b) volunteer self-funded decentralized video service like Peertube

Both those options have massive economic and technical disadvantages. Storing petabytes of videos is expensive and so far, nobody else has figured out a non-advertising model to pay for the hosting costs to serve them to millions.

Keep in mind that the other video websites that some people do pay for such as Netflix, HBO Go, Hulu, etc are also not bastions of free speech that allow extreme political views.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google#Advertise...

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=Adpocalypse+advertisers+boyc...

[2] https://www.tune.com/blog/mobile-ads-70-of-smartphone-owners...

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#62
post #51

The Trending page has been listing the same people over and over and over again for the last 3 years. It's shameful, pathetic, and makes the platform feel extremely biased. Seriously though. This is unacceptable and overly controlled. Not to mention that those people over the last 3 years post borderline brainwash content without any connection to a real audience. It's pretty sad to see YouTube turn into something li…

The Trending page makes me feel really old, and pretty "get off my lawn" w/r/t what's popular, or being promoted, right now.

A lot of the channels I've followed have gone fallow. No new content.

That said, I think the arguments around this topic are pretty disingenuous.

1) There's nasty content being uploaded to Youtube -- YouTube isn't making the nasty content.

2) YouTube promotes some content, people are pissed - it's all about the moneti$ation.

3) YouTube creates a system to stop promoting some kinds of content, people are pissed - censorship, slippery slope to de-platforming, etc.

There's no real alternative to YouTube (Vimeo isn't it, and the blockchain YouTube isn't it) for:

a) creators,

b) creators who want to make money.

And looking at what Facebook, Twitter and YouTube have to deal with in the social sphere, who'd want to inherit those problems? This is why we're still going to end up with aggregated media empires, because they'll accept the overhead of running the network, and it will simply get even more shallow in terms of who supplies "content".

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#63

What a dystopian nightmare the internet is turning into. Anything that isn't in line with "right thought" isn't Responsible and is therefore hidden away? How did we end up here? How did Silicon Valley go from a place focused on ideas and building the future to generating systematic censorship and endless puritanical moral panic? We badly need some new blood guiding tech development.

Two good ways to make a dystopia: 1) by trying to create a utopia, which always ends up in dystopia, or 2) by removing all rules and concept of society.

Maybe we can unwind the dystopian internet by adding a little of the real world responsibility back onto corporations that have been running wild without any rules “because it’s the net”.

YouTube, Facebook, etc. that are all behaving as publishers but without the responsibility real world publishers have, are now facing that reality. It appears they are having to choose between taking on the responsibility of being a publisher, or to do away with that by become just a platform. At the moment they seem to be trying to hold onto their publisher behavior while doing as little as they can.

In response everyone cries fowl. Instead you should be arguing that YouTube must drop is publisher behavior and design aspects and reorganize around being a pure video hosting platform if that’s what you want. But not both.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#64
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a dystopian nightmare for Youtube to curate its content according to "quality", but it wasn't a dystopian nightmare for Youtube to curate its content to maximize engagement for ad revenue?

Th latter puts the users in control of what is trending. The former lets YouTube manipulate the content for arbitrary purposes.

Youtube was always manipulating the platform for arbitrary purposes (and sometimes the content, for copyright purposes.) Users have never been in control of anything.

see: the Youtube "Adpocalypse" and the various other changes to their algorithm that destroyed the profitability of entire genres of content (such as animation.)

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#65
post #52
post #25

Please just give us the ability to blacklist channels. That’d increase usability by 10x for me.

AFAIK you can do that? Hit the menu on a video recommendation, "Not Interested" -> "Tell Us Why" -> "I'm not interested in this channel". IMO, though, blacklisting has been mostly proven to be insufficient. If you block, say, noted chud Sargon of Akkad, that doesn't mean that another half-dozen "Rationalist" "Thinkers" Who Just Happen To Be Chuds won't be recommended to you as well.

allow channels to categorise themselves (which I believe already exists but is underutilised?) and allow users to express positive or negative interest towards categories. There is little incentive to self-categorise incorrectly as it would lower your visibility to those who want to find you.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#66
post #31

On a side note, the creators of YouTube ought to [at least informally] unionize. There's no reason Adam Neely should be getting copyright "strikes" for explaining music to the masses, or Cody's Lab should be forced to take down videos on mining with explosives [on his family's ranch]. YouTube needs to have a hotline for problem solving for their most profitable content providers, and until the creators collectively h…

MCN's are basically the private version of this. Content creators join MCN's "Multi-Channel Networks" with the idea that the MCN will handle some of the more administrative and legal tasks while the content creators focus on content. MCN's try to help with the copyright striking and often do have a direct line to youtube due to their size and importance.

Except MCNs sit as a middleman to you getting paid. The Defy Media debacle taught everyone a hard lesson.

For those unaware, Defy Media went bust and had taken out substantial loans to operate. A large number of big creators are still unpaid while Defy Media's creditors carve up the company's assets.

All those creators are going to get left unpaid.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#67
post #34
post #5

> Creating the right metric for success could help marginalize videos that are inappropriate, or popular among small but active communities with extreme views. So, deplatform what's not mainstream, accepted by the establishment, favorable to Google...

I would actually be glad if some of the more extreme and irresponsible opinions are deplatformed. It cant be argued that Youtube is expected to platform all range of opinions. There is however a strong likelihood of this being exploited by Youtube for its own purposes.

Deplatforming, blocking, label and dismissing as forms of dealing with `extremes`, is not only a bad solution, but only fuels those extremes - driving them into their own confirmation bubbles and onto more dangerous forms of outletting their opinions.

What needs to happen is solid debate, constructivly listening and then disseminating and showing what they are wrong about and why, with proof.

As for platforms, deplatforming gives them PR, fuels their antidisestablishment mentalities and hands them the discrimination card (ironically) as a social form of crying to gain more people sat on the fence and drives them into hopping off on the wrong side. Be far better to listen, debate and handle, heck even if everybody just laughed and pointed - whilst unconstructive, it is far more constructive than the way it is currently handled.

But the whole rise of label and dismiss, has become a tool that many use to push their own extreme narratives and group-think mentalities without rationalising what they are actually doing.

Imagine if somebody said 2+2 is 5, you would point out what is wrong with that, why and show that it is 4. But society today seems to prefer to label and name call and ignore them without telling them how they are wrong and debating it so they learn. Hence it only fuels and angers those who believe the answer is 5, as they feel ignored, dismissed and in effect, bullied. Then the whole state of victimhood mentalities play out and the only thing debated is done in a confirmation-vacuum by both sides in isolation, giving rise to name calling etc. All rather sad and ugly.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#68
post #24

What a dystopian nightmare the internet is turning into. Anything that isn't in line with "right thought" isn't Responsible and is therefore hidden away? How did we end up here? How did Silicon Valley go from a place focused on ideas and building the future to generating systematic censorship and endless puritanical moral panic? We badly need some new blood guiding tech development.

Why is it a dystopian nightmare for Youtube to curate its content according to "quality", but it wasn't a dystopian nightmare for Youtube to curate its content to maximize engagement for ad revenue?

The problem is that "quality" is going to be enforced by the same algorithms that mark whitenoise as a DMCA copyright violation.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#69
post #22

Honestly, it's pretty ridiculous that YouTube is being pressured to police the content on its platform. What worries me far more than extremist videos on YouTube, is the idea of a mega-corporation exerting outsized influence over the opinions we are exposed to. Is our democracy really so fragile that it cannot survive an open marketplace of ideas?

> Honestly, it's pretty ridiculous that YouTube is being pressured to police the content on its platform.

It's not "ridiculous", it's table stakes. If you ever run an open community, you'll find that bad actors are inevitable.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#70
post #22

Honestly, it's pretty ridiculous that YouTube is being pressured to police the content on its platform. What worries me far more than extremist videos on YouTube, is the idea of a mega-corporation exerting outsized influence over the opinions we are exposed to. Is our democracy really so fragile that it cannot survive an open marketplace of ideas?

It's not an open marketplace and each side is is fighting a different fight: >Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to pl…

What makes it not an open marketplace? The very bias introduced by platform like YouTube which you seem to be defending? Is the average person so dumb that they cannot distinguish between "sound argument" vs "intimidate and disconcert"? If that's how you feel about the average person, why do you still favor democracy?
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