Live data from Hacker News

EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

blog.archive.org

211–220 of 222 posts

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#211
post #26

Funny how exactly EU follows the path Russia has recently taken. After Russia passed the law that banned online material promoting terrorist content, suicide, drug information and harm to children, and so on, there was an avalanche of false takedown requests and misidentifications, including attempting to block Wikipedia, ban Bhagavad Gita commentary (yes, really) and many more anecdotes that sound funny unless you l…

I think we’re still a long way before we reach the excess of Russia regarding free speech et subordination of democratic values.

Russia is blazing the way in demonstrating specifically how purportedly anti-extremist censorship laws can be applied in practice, though. To give one example, it has a law against "actions that are directed at fomenting hatred or enmity against, or humiliating the dignity of, a person or a group of people, on the basis of sex, race, ethnicity, language, origin, religion, or membership in some social group". Civil infraction the first time around, and you can go to prison for several years for a repeat offence.

Doesn't sound so bad, does it? Well, turns out that police can be a social group. So can government employees. And members of parliament. Of course, back when they passed that law, some civil libertarians did point out the vagueness. But it went exactly as it usually does in any Western country - the politicians were pinky swearing that this is all about Nazis and radical Islamists and other nasty people like that who deserve it, and obviously it wouldn't be used for anything inappropriate; but, you see, if it's too narrow, then the bad guys can find ways around it, so it has to allow for some flexibility.

For most Westerners, the immediate reaction to this is, "it can never happen here" - not the laws, since many countries have similar, but the part where they get misused. We'd never tolerate it, the argument goes. But we are tolerating it. France also has exemplary hate speech laws - and under them, wearing a t-shirt that advocates a boycott of Israel is a hate crime, a felony even, and people are actually getting arrested, charged and convicted under it. The law in question is 15 years old now, and it's far from the only one like that in Europe - just the most abused one so far.

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in-europe-hate-speech-la...

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#212
post #65

Is this the end of websites being available 24 hours a day? Just switch off the web server every evening when leaving the office?

The CIO (!) of one of our clients seriously proposed that last year for a new big online B2C service. We were just laughing at that point, knowing the CEO will not go for that, but even the though process was scary, and made some sense.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#213
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is implied that the parent comment was talking about illegal drugs. Interesting side fact: unlike in english, there are two completely distinct words for illegal and legal drugs in russian language. Which a lot of times makes it easier to spot russian-speaking posters, as they tend to refer to illegal drugs as just "drugs", while referring to legal ones using other more specific terms, like "pills" or something el…

> Interesting side fact: unlike in english, there are two completely distinct words for illegal and legal drugs in russian language. German is the same: "Drogen" = illegal drugs like cannabis, "Medizin" = medicine. For Germans learning English, "drug store" may sound confusing until one learns about the various distinct meanings of the word "drug" in English.

"Drug store" was probably the most confusing term I ran into in colloquial American English for this same reason. Just saying it sounded all kinds of wrong at first.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the voters will that allows them to use the guise of comabting hate speech, terrorism, child porn etc. Blogging about the negative repercussions of this behaviour help inform the opinions of voters and is exactly what you should do in a democracy.

I am sorry but thanks to our love of social media being a 'platform of all' they are able to dictate what is a 'credible/trusted source' https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/01/trusted-sources/ This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

A social media monopoly cannot be a "platform for all", by definition.

But that's an argument against monopolies, not against social media per se.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#215
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have learned through bitter experience that, while free speech is a precious right, it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances. Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged. Have they learnt the right lesson though? What's the alternate history theory here? You toss Hitler in jail after he makes an inflammatory speech to a…

It always fascinating to me when Americans pretend freedom of speech will automatically solve all struggles between people having incompatible worldview while their own political landscape in recent years has become more divisive than ever... I see quite a few similarities with pre ww2 Germany. We'll how fast violence will be on the rise.

It's not that it will solve all struggles. It's that censorship doesn't solve them, either, but makes everything else worse.

And speaking of our own political landscape, last thing I want is a right wing populist government that has been handed laws to crack down on "hate speech" by my fellow progressive do-gooders. If such laws were to pass and found constitutional, I'd expect BLM and BDS to be the first targets in all red states (and Europe has ample precedent for persecuting BDS as "hate speech", so it's not like you'd have any moral high ground on calling them out on it).

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#216
post #56
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you stand on falsely claiming "fire" in a crowded movie theater?

I'm old enough to remember when conservative pundits would pose similar challenges when discussing which forms of contemporary music needed to be outlawed. So where I stand is that I've learned to associate anyone offering the fire in a crowded theater argument as another advocate of the prevailing moral panic.

The "fire in a crowded theater" argument was created by advocates of the prevailing moral panic, in fact. The panic in question was anti-war and anti-draft propaganda by socialist parties in the USA during WW1, and the phrase originated in a Supreme Court ruling that said that it's legal for the federal government to imprison people for speaking such horrible things.

It never ceases to amaze me how common this trope remains in defense of censorship, given that it was designed as a slippery slope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#217
post #145

What exactly is "terrorist content?" Do calls to arms from the American Revolution against England count? What about other revolutions of the past?

Yes, I would say that anyone calling for armed revolution would be classified as a terrorist by the government they opposed. Governments tend not to take sides against other governments unless they want to go to war with them in some way. So you can imagine that in many cases most other governments would back the terrorist label. This points out one of the big issues with the use of the word "terrorist" in today's wo…

I think the question is, does it stop being terrorist if a revolution happened in the past, but the actions are still recognized as having being terrorism? Are Jacobine writings terrorist in nature, for example? How about a scan of Pravda circa 1918, with headlines like "Long live the Red Terror!"?

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#218

Reminds me of: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/09/man-charged-... > The charges allege that Golaszewski was found with copies of 21 Silent Techniques of Killing by Master Hei Long, The Anarchist Cookbook and The Big Book of Mischief on 23 February in Leeds. It is also alleged that he had in his possession the Improvised Munitions Handbook, Murder Inc, The Book by Jack the Rippa, and Minimanual Of The Urb…

I knew that UK was pretty bad in this regard, but I didn't realize it's that bad. You know what "possession of a document or record containing information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism" reminds me of? "Contacts leading to suspicion of espionage" - one of the common charges under Article 58 in USSR circa 1930s, according to Solzhenitsyn.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a reminder, the ruling party, specifically our chancellor Merkel, said: "the Internet is Neuland (uncharted territory) for all of us". And that was only 6 years ago.

Was she wrong? The "modern" internet (fast, for everyone, modern sites) was only about a decade old at the time. That's a mere moment in Germany's history

Many EU countries with much younger democracies behave much more mature regarding the internet. Some silly slogan is a miserable explanation of the state of affairs.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#220
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for anyone outside of the EU, and not in short-term. However, I believe that it is an alarming tendency that can cause a lot of damage over a sufficiently long time period.

It's still a problem for us in the U.S, because there are always politicians in the U.S. that look at dumb things being done in Europe and say, "We should be doing that, too.", and voters who will vote for them.

Agreed. That's what I meant by long-term, I should have been more clear.
Post reply on HN