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EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

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Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#21

Post by durnygbur »

jdietrich wrote: post #14
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #2

It's very sad to see the path the EU has chosen to follow in regards to speech and the free flow of ideas.

It's a path that pre-dates the EU. We're a crowded continent with a huge amount of diversity and a long and bitter history of war. We have learned through bitter experience that, while free speech is a precious right, it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances. Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged. Free speech is not unc…

Wasn’t the problem exactly that the government had too much control over the information flow and the general narrative?

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#22

Post by [deleted] »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #15
jdietrich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a path that pre-dates the EU. We're a crowded continent with a huge amount of diversity and a long and bitter history of war. We have learned through bitter experience that, while free speech is a precious right, it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances. Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged. Free speech is not unc…

it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances Such as when government is given too much power over it.

[deleted]

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#23

Post by klagermkii »

jdietrich wrote: post #14
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #2

It's very sad to see the path the EU has chosen to follow in regards to speech and the free flow of ideas.

It's a path that pre-dates the EU. We're a crowded continent with a huge amount of diversity and a long and bitter history of war. We have learned through bitter experience that, while free speech is a precious right, it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances. Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged. Free speech is not unc…

> We have learned through bitter experience that, while free speech is a precious right, it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances. Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged.

Have they learnt the right lesson though? What's the alternate history theory here? You toss Hitler in jail after he makes an inflammatory speech to a large crowd, but before he's elected and that prevents WW2?

None of this solves the underlying issue of there being deep political problems in any country that ends up with this kind of leader getting into power. The hope of free speech supposedly being that someone will eventually put their finger on the real cause of the problems and get people on board with it, rather than an unfortunate group being scapegoated.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#24

Post by macinjosh »

The EU is a nightmare. Once the UK leaves and people see they are doing better it’s going to start a procession of other countries out the door. Too many regulations and red tape like this make doing business in the EU difficult. I am slightly annoyed every time a cookie banner blocks my view on a website. To think some person in Belgium decided that was a good idea and now everyone online has to deal with it is disturbing.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#25

Post by rhizome »

ghda wrote: post #6
zentiggr wrote: post #4

How do we push back on these agencies for their obvious flawed process?

We don’t push back on the process, we push back on the principle. The point of the principle of free speech is not that all speech is beneficial but that we can’t possibly trust any agency with the power to decide what is and isn’t. The “process” probably has no more flaws than any other process designed and implemented by mortals, it just goes to demonstrate why the whole censor-the-internet idea is wrong.

Where do you stand on falsely claiming "fire" in a crowded movie theater?

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#26

Post by smsm42 »

Funny how exactly EU follows the path Russia has recently taken. After Russia passed the law that banned online material promoting terrorist content, suicide, drug information and harm to children, and so on, there was an avalanche of false takedown requests and misidentifications, including attempting to block Wikipedia, ban Bhagavad Gita commentary (yes, really) and many more anecdotes that sound funny unless you live there. Now Russia has progressed to banning "insulting" the government publicly, i.e. direct ban on political dissent. I wonder how long it would be until EU does the same.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#27

Post by smsm42 »

andjd wrote: post #19

In situations with notice-and-takedown like this, I always wonder why there aren't stronger protections against abuse. Should a platform or user who had their content ordered removed in error be able to receive damages? Should the lawyers or civil servants instigating these notices be disciplined for issuing erroneous, improper, or overly broad takedown notices be disciplined or blacklisted?

I guess the same reason why police and government is allowed to lie to you, but if you lie to police or government you're a felon. Because they can. As long as people vote for such situation to continue, it continues.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#28

Post by durnygbur »

ascendantlogic wrote: post #13

Politicians do not care about the ramifications of this. They only care about granting themselves power over who sees what when through the guise of combating hate speech, terrorism, child porn, etc. Posting a blog about this will change nothing.

It’s really hopeless each time one realizes how French and German politicians perceive the internet. For them the internet is not synonymous with the freedom of creativity and expression, but with the freedom to restrain and to control.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#29

Post by dsfyu404ed »

macinjosh wrote: post #24

The EU is a nightmare. Once the UK leaves and people see they are doing better it’s going to start a procession of other countries out the door. Too many regulations and red tape like this make doing business in the EU difficult. I am slightly annoyed every time a cookie banner blocks my view on a website. To think some person in Belgium decided that was a good idea and now everyone online has to deal with it is dist…

Regardless of EU membership the UK is very much not on a track to "do better" when it comes to anything freedom related.

Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content

#30

Post by malvosenior »

macinjosh wrote: post #24

The EU is a nightmare. Once the UK leaves and people see they are doing better it’s going to start a procession of other countries out the door. Too many regulations and red tape like this make doing business in the EU difficult. I am slightly annoyed every time a cookie banner blocks my view on a website. To think some person in Belgium decided that was a good idea and now everyone online has to deal with it is dist…

I totally agree with you, except the UK are the ones with the cookie banners. At least if each country comes up with their own draconian set of internet laws, it will be easier to ignore them all since there will be less "juice" behind each version of the law.
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