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Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#311

Post by StudentStuff »

tzs wrote: post #287
StudentStuff wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done this drive after the eclipse (and beaten the wave of traffic back to Portland on US-26), using a Model S you might have been able to make it, definitely with the P85 battery pack and no AC (which was not necessary in Madras). The main concern would be not getting trapped in traffic hell, like any other driver. Getting slightly north of Madclipse and other camps, then immediately getting on the road post-e…

> Getting slightly north of Madclipse and other camps, then immediately getting on the road post-eclipse meant almost empty roads for us I was in that general area. I was in a farmer's field that had sold overnight parking spots for $50, and allowed sleeping in your car. Here's where it was [1]. I heard the first cars starting to leave the instant totality ended. I waited until about 4 PM to leave, but still got seri…

Ah, we left the campsite in Madras an hour before the eclipse, stopped off in Warm Springs for food and got north of there before the eclipse. Stayed in Portland the rest of the day (people to see and such), avoiding any traffic on I-5.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#312

Post by oblio »

vsl wrote: post #306
rootusrootus wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really practical to include taxes in US prices. Some of us don't pay any additional tax on car purchases.

Some of us don’t pay VAT on business purchases either. It’s customary in US, and evil genius in EU, where consumer prices must be shown with VAT. It hides the tax (surprisingly many people, even those you would expect to be financially literate, aren’t aware of the sheer amount of it - see any online bitching about Apple’s EU prices). And that’s how you end up with 19-25% taxation of everything you buy in EU. US sale…

I like how you manage to turn this around so skillfully.

The US sucks because you never see the actual price of something you buy: you just notice it at the counter. When you ask why they don't just label the product with the final price, they say: we can't, it's too complicated. I doubt that.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#313

Post by dexterdog »

vsl wrote: post #301
dexterdog wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are on a highway with 1/4 tank you are likely to have a number of options before you get close to running out an you can be taking just about any route you want. With a supercharger dependency you are highly limited.

See your sibling comment.

What does that have to do with chargers? There are less chargers than gas stations.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#314

Post by Reason077 »

magnetic wrote: post #249
bacon_waffle wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you have to wait for two or three cars ahead of you do their 30 minute charges, can you do something while you wait or do you have to stick with your car to move it up whenever the line moves? This seems like an ideal use for self driving technology - park at the tail end of the queue and your car moves itself forward.

Once you move to the front of the queue, you need this to happen too: https://youtu.be/uMM0lRfX6YI

You can always have an attendant plugging and unplugging the cars (at the busiest stations where queuing is necessary), until that technology is ready.

Some gas stations still have pump attendants, after all!

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#315

Post by netsharc »

Zarel wrote: post #255
netsharc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users of autopilot probably have faith in it, although in some cases (like the guy running into the concrete divider) this caused their deaths. I guess your mindset is different to the grandparent poster's mindset. He thinks autopilot is as reliable as a human chauffeur, to you (and probably to me too) it'd be like having a driver which you can't communicate with and might suffer epilepsy and fatally yank the wheel a…

I hear a lot of this from people who've never tried Autopilot, and yet everyone who has tried Autopilot loves it. My best guess here is that "babysitting an epileptic chauffeur" may sound scary, but in practice it's a lot less stressful than actually driving. Not needing to focus on lane-keeping and maintaining safe following distance is probably a lot nicer than you might expect – you still have to pay attention to…

> everyone who has tried Autopilot loves it.

I would like to bet the guy who hit the concrete barrier would disagree... sadly he's dead.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#316

Post by Klathmon »

burfog wrote: post #294
Klathmon wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Picture four lanes with four vehicles. You decide to go right down the middle. The outermost vehicles change, being replaced by larger vehicles, but the innermost vehicles haven't seen you. This might be part of the disconnect here. You aren't "sitting" next to cars, you are passing them. If you aren't actively passing cars, you aren't splitting and should get in your own lane. A rule of thumb is that you should be…

Your "safe lane splitting scenario" is compatible with my scenario, the one where you get squished flat. It's also not OK to snap off my mirror or gouge a groove in my paint. I'm not "drifting into another lane". I'm using the space that is rightfully mine. No, I'm not going to signal. I'm not leaving my lane. The whole lane is mine; it is my safety margin. If a truck on my right gets closer, then I will move left, a…

Yes, in a scenario where I'm next to 2 cars on a highway and during that one second that i'm passing them they both immediately turn toward the inner edge of the lane with no warning and within a second are as close to that inner lane as they can each get, I will get hit.

But that scenario is insanely contrived, extremely unlikely, and damn near impossible to happen and also not result in any contact without the motorcycle (if you and another driver both move toward the "inner" edge of your lane at the same time as far as you both can without "leaving" your lane, you will collide).

>You also aren't leaving room for actual emergencies, in which case I may swerve over the line. If you are in the proper position, there will be 4 to 6 feet of safety margin

This brings up another cool point that is really counterintuitive at first! Motorcycles who aren't lane splitting shouldn't be in the center of the lane, it's one of the most dangerous areas for them to be! Generally they want to be on a side closest to other traffic, the rule of thumb is to "act like your bike is the left or right side of a car in that same lane".

When a bike is in the middle of a lane, people often try to merge into it and don't see them until it's too late. By riding the inside edge of the lane, you make yourself visible to drivers that would otherwise not be able to see you. The center of a lane also has the most gravel, oil, and other stuff on it. So no, you wouldn't have 4 to 6 feet of safety margin. Hell according to your logic that entire lane should be mine, so you have zero feet of safety margin.

>You claim that your behavior is safe, but there is a good reason that 98% of the states in the USA do not support it.

And 98% of the rest of the world does. Take Norway for example. Lane splitting is legal, and there are 3 deaths per 100k vehicles there (compared to 13 in the US, and 130 in India). And that's not just one country. All of Europe is safer to drive in (average of 19 deaths per 100k vehicles) than the US, and just about all of Europe allows lane splitting. Even the NHTSA says that lane splitting "slightly reduces" accidents.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#317

Post by Reason077 »

sailfast wrote: post #61
Reason077 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla Model 3 is very capable of long road trips, especially in the summer, with a range of 500km or more. The only exception would be if you’re driving in very remote areas with no charging infrastructure, but that almost doesn’t exist any more in Western Europe. The Tesla Supercharger network, combined with its ability to charge on CCS charging networks like Ionity, make it uniquely suited to long distance trav…

For a Model 3 even with readily available charging that still means ~1 hour waiting on a supercharger per charge, and you've gotta do that 2-3x to get from, say, Amsterdam to Kitzbuhel for a skiing road trip. Figure 15 Euro minimum to use the charger during that time? (I'm using range numbers and charging costs available on the web to run this calculation) I know it's _possible_ to get somewhere without range anxiety…

"added time plus 30-45 Euro for the privilege to do that is a serious downside"

So would you rather pay €30-45 for charging, or ~€150 for petrol/diesel?

And of course it's only added time if you weren't planning to make stops anyway. Most drivers take breaks, and arguably it's unsafe to not do so over such long journeys.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#318

Post by kalleboo »

archi42 wrote: post #173
kalleboo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my last roadtrip I got a rental car with Subaru's EyeSight adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping. After a day of driving with that I was noticeably less fatigued, and could afford to actually look out at the scenery every now and then. Definitely worth it, I imagine Tesla's system is even better.

I found fatigue mostly depends on the other traffic. In my 2003 Volvo S60 I can do 800km [500mi] of Autobahn with virtually zero fatigue (basic cruise control and better seats than in my living room) -- with little traffic and mostly cruising at 110km/h [70mph] (or faster if traffic demands it). Though there is not much difference to 140km/h [87mph] besides 20% better fuel economy. Now, same car, same weather, but 50…

I'm sure traffic makes a huge difference. I drive very rarely (once every 2-3 months?) so every time it's pretty exhausting.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#319

Post by rootusrootus »

oblio wrote: post #312
vsl wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us don’t pay VAT on business purchases either. It’s customary in US, and evil genius in EU, where consumer prices must be shown with VAT. It hides the tax (surprisingly many people, even those you would expect to be financially literate, aren’t aware of the sheer amount of it - see any online bitching about Apple’s EU prices). And that’s how you end up with 19-25% taxation of everything you buy in EU. US sale…

I like how you manage to turn this around so skillfully. The US sucks because you never see the actual price of something you buy: you just notice it at the counter. When you ask why they don't just label the product with the final price, they say: we can't, it's too complicated. I doubt that.

The real reason is probably that the retailer wants to show the lowest price. Especially for people who might choose to cross-shop different stores.

The legitimate reason is that sales tax in the US can vary by city, or county, or state. Personally I think they should include both prices on the tag. I suppose if you live somewhere that has sales tax you get used to doing the math on the fly. I live in a state with no sales tax so it always surprises me when I shop out of state.

Re: Tesla Model 3 becomes best-selling car in Switzerland

#320

Post by eclipxe »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #256
eclipxe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"basically a little worse (but still comparable)". No, not even close. I had an M5 with BMW's latest lane keeping assist. Tesla's Autopilot is exponentially better. Especially in the last two weeks with unattended highway lane changes. It is night and day different.

What does it mean practically? What do you mean by "exponentially"? VW, BMW, have lane assist. It means the vehicle will stay in the lane. Autopilot will also stay in the lane. Let's say on a 30 minute drive, autopilot will disengage 2 times, VW will disengage 6 times. Is this about right? I don't see an "exponential" difference here, care to explain? I have tried several vehicles that have this, but for short period…

I mean exponentially as in the experience is radically different. VW, BMW, etc will disengage multiple times during a trip by itself. Autopilot does not. 99% of my trips, I do not have to take over from autopilot. It just works. Sharp curves, stop and go traffic. The intelligence of the system - Tesla will look at cars in adjacent lanes, detect a blinker and slow the car to allow a merge. Tesla will look at cars approaching from an on-ramp merge and slow down to properly zipper merge. Tesla will detect a car in a blind spot during a lane change and automatically steer to avoid a collision. And yes the automatic lane changes are even further. They don't require perfect road conditions and there are no issues with proper speed or accurate changes. For me in SoCal traffic, the car will drive onramp to offramp, changing highways and avoiding slow traffic without me doing anything. This is what I mean by exponentially different. It is night and day.
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