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Julian Assange arrested in London

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#191

Post by billfruit »

pjc50 wrote: post #139
lazyjones wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that after the stupid Russian collusion story was dismantled by the recent Mueller report, people would be a little more careful with such paranoid allegations, but here we go...

The story was hardly dismantled. A number of people have actually pled guilty and been jailed for crimes as a result. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/m...

None have plead guilty or sentenced for collusion or collaboration with Russia. They have been convicted for lying to federal officials or some such offense.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#192

Post by sasasassy »

mcv wrote: post #132
antocv wrote: post #65

Do you guys remember when the airplane of president Morales, was forced down in Vienna when he was on a flight home? Breaking diplomatic immunity, hospitality etc. Just because CIA believed Assange was in that flight, that Morales would help him escape. EDIT: My mistake, that was for Snowden, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

Yeah, I remember. A disgrace on several levels. I really wish a European country would have had the spine to give Snowden asylum. Not the same issue as Assange of course, unless, as Assange claims, this too is the long arm of the US secretly trying to get whistleblowers extradited. I'm not sure that's the case here, though; I think the Swedish rape allegations have merit, and unlike Snowden, I don't think Assange has…

The Swedish rape allegations were an obvious sham and have already been dropped years ago. Usually when this happens the case is just dropped, yet the UK really pressed in arresting Assange for "failing to appear in court", which is most countries is a minor thing (the accused is not punished for lying in court or missing court dates). I think it's obvious that any excuse will do for extraditing him to the US, to make an example of him. But so much time has passed and the case is so public now that I at least hope the UK will save face and free him instead of extraditing him.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#193

Post by garmaine »

foldr wrote: post #171
garmaine wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't in the UK.

Extraterritoriality of embassies is a myth. Assange was in the UK when he was in the Ecuadorian embassy. However, the UK authorities could not have removed him from the embassy without violating the Vienna Convention.

Semantics. The host country is prevented from entering, searching, seizing people or persons, or otherwise enforcing its laws in any way. The soil is technically still British, but so long as he had Ecuador's cooperation, he was entirely outside the reach of UK law.

So by the dictionary definition of sovereignty -- "supreme power or authority" the sovereign inside the walls of the embassy is Ecuador, not the UK, since the UK has no de facto authority there. But by the definition of "sovereignty" applied to issues of land ownership, the interior space of the building is technically still British and would revert back to enforceable UK legal jurisdiction when the mission is over.

So really you could argue it either way.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#194

Post by overkalix »

peteretep wrote: post #184
overkalix wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They believed Snowden was on-board, and to make the plane go to Wien, the Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italian governments were pressured to deny Morales right of passage and pressured him to allow the plane to be searched. The governments of half of Europe fold like a cheap suit to the interests of the US intelligence services.

> The governments of half of Europe fold like a cheap suit to the interests of the US intelligence services The governments of most of Western Europe have geopolitical interests strongly allied to the US. > Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italian So, all members of SIGINT Seniors Europe except Portugal.

Is it in the interests of European governments for the US government to spy on European governments and citizens? Cool-cool-cool.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#195

Post by doctorfoo »

DavidVoid wrote: post #117
fxbl0i wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What crimes did he commit? Honest question. I heard that someone accused him of being a rapist but then dropped the charges so I guess it was false. What else is there?

What you've heard is false. The investigation was dropped simply because there was no way to proceed with the investigation with him still hiding away in the embassy. The investigation will be reopened if he returns to Sweden before August 2020 when the statute of limitations expires for the minor rape allegation. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39973864

No, they chose not to interview him at the embassy or via weblink, because had they done so, the case would have been closed. They rather keep it open.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#196

Post by peteretep »

threeseed wrote: post #97
peteretep wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he’s likely to face the death penalty, then he has an excellent legal defence against extradition. If he’d left earlier, he’d have had a chance to appeal to the ECJ too. Ooops

Brexit has been extended to October and it's very likely it won't happen at all. Or that UK would be subject to ECJ anyway.

> it's very likely it won't happen at all

I mean I really hope you're right, but betting markets have odds on that at about 30%, which for me doesn't count as "very likely"

> Brexit has been extended to October

The English legal system moves sloooooooowly. I mean not third-world slowly, but the McKinnon case had what, a decade in it?

> Or that UK would be subject to ECJ anyway.

As a sibling comment noted, I was wrong to talk about the ECJ, when the ECHR is what's important. Interesting to see how that thrashes out post-Brexit.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#197

Post by foldr »

garmaine wrote: post #193
foldr wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extraterritoriality of embassies is a myth. Assange was in the UK when he was in the Ecuadorian embassy. However, the UK authorities could not have removed him from the embassy without violating the Vienna Convention.

Semantics. The host country is prevented from entering, searching, seizing people or persons, or otherwise enforcing its laws in any way. The soil is technically still British, but so long as he had Ecuador's cooperation, he was entirely outside the reach of UK law. So by the dictionary definition of sovereignty -- "supreme power or authority" the sovereign inside the walls of the embassy is Ecuador, not the UK, sinc…

No, the UK is sovereign inside the Ecuadorian embassy. The authorities are prevented from entering by international treaties that they've signed.

If international treaty obligations block sovereignty, then the UK isn't sovereign within the UK either (!), since there are certainly international treaties signed by the UK which prevent the UK authorities doing certain things within the UK. For example, the UK authorities cannot usually arrest diplomats, regardless of whether or not the diplomat is in an embassy.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#198

Post by rndgermandude »

isostatic wrote: post #185
garmaine wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't in the UK.

He was before he ran to the embassy, skipping bail, on the pretext that if the UK extradited him to Sweden, Sweden would extradite him to the U.S. That's an invalid pretext.

Why is that invalid?

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#199

Post by hedwall »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #16
chvid wrote: post #12

About time. It will be good see his case brought before the courts whatever they will be in the US, UK, Sweden ... staying in the embassy for so many years is just absurd.

And what case would that be? The case in Sweden was dropped for example.

It wasn't dropped, the statute of limitations ran out because JA refused to be interviewed by the prosecutor and hid in an embassy.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#200

Post by hardlianotion »

foldr wrote: post #152
hardlianotion wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is strange as the UK had little skin in the game to begin with

The state can't be seen to wink at skipping bail, or everyone would be doing it. I don't think you need to look for any deeper explanation than that.

Agreed. But it is ironic.
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