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Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

propublica.org

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Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#291

Post by TallGuyShort »

technofiend wrote: post #246
valleyjo wrote: post #220

Every time I pay for TurboTax I hate them even more for lobbying for this type of legislation.

Have you considered any alternatives? I use taxcut but have used sites in the past like taxbrain.

+1 to getting an accountant. TurboTax is great if you just have regular income and common deductions. I've never felt satisfied with TurboTax any time I've had a question about anything. Every year I pay an accountant twice what I paid TurboTax, I spend less time going through the process (I literally save a folder of documents and dump it on her desk) and get far more. At the beginning of the year she does my return, hands me a stack of 4 ready-to-mail envelopes with all my estimated tax vouchers filled out, reviews my withholdings mid-year with me, and works with my investment guy to make sure they're both giving me good recommendations. I have so much less mental load to deal with - I love it.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#292

Post by sonnyblarney »

airstrike wrote: post #218

This IMHO is the biggest issue the U.S. faces today, simply due to the fact that so many secondary issues stem from how conflicted lawmaking is in this country. I don't know if it's the same way elsewhere. Maybe it is, and it just isn't as widely reported. But the fact remains that we know this to be an issue and we're not campaigning enough to solve it. The only other issue that I feel is as pervasive is the end of…

One might argue if this is related to scale.

'Everywhere else' is usually Can you imagine an EU level healthcare mandate? It'd be out of control impossible, and yet it works well enough a 'the state level'.

It'd be nice to see some really forward thinking states lead the way and forge a path, if a few caught on and there were material examples of 'how it could be done' then maybe there'd be hope.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#293

Post by freddie_mercury »

mattferderer wrote: post #265

If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. Has anyone used Turbo Tax or H&R "free" versions to file? I can't use them & last time I tried they charged you to submit your taxes electronically but otherwise it was simple & easy. I also know many cities offer services to help people file simple taxes for free. I believe this bill also states the IRS cannot se…

> I don't expect the IRS to make software for complicated taxes as that's a very difficult challenge.

The IRS already has this software. They are literally the best placed people in the world to make this software.

How do you think they check taxes for 300,000,000 people + businesses? And their software is already pre-populated with data from employers, banks, brokerages, and all the other places that automatically file data with the IRS.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#294

Post by fattire »

arkades wrote: post #273
mattferderer wrote: post #265

If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. Has anyone used Turbo Tax or H&R "free" versions to file? I can't use them & last time I tried they charged you to submit your taxes electronically but otherwise it was simple & easy. I also know many cities offer services to help people file simple taxes for free. I believe this bill also states the IRS cannot se…

> If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. You did not. You can contact the private companies such as H&R Block and request Their free service if you make less than 66k - and subject yourself to their upselling and scam artistry, to try and get you to pay anything more than "free." > I don't expect the IRS to make software for complicated taxes as that's…

> - and subject yourself to their upselling and scam artistry, to try and get you to pay anything more than "free."

Don't forget data mining. Dunno if these apps have ads, but if they do, be sure to add that in as well.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#295

Post by [deleted] »

arkades wrote: post #273
mattferderer wrote: post #265

If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. Has anyone used Turbo Tax or H&R "free" versions to file? I can't use them & last time I tried they charged you to submit your taxes electronically but otherwise it was simple & easy. I also know many cities offer services to help people file simple taxes for free. I believe this bill also states the IRS cannot se…

> If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. You did not. You can contact the private companies such as H&R Block and request Their free service if you make less than 66k - and subject yourself to their upselling and scam artistry, to try and get you to pay anything more than "free." > I don't expect the IRS to make software for complicated taxes as that's…

[deleted]

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#296

Post by pdonis »

lacey wrote: post #241
PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

This sort of argument comes up all the time, claiming governments somehow screw everything up but private industry has some sort of amazing track record at producing value. There’s a continuous stream of evidence to the contrary, particularly if you’ve ever worked for large companies and seen the kind of wasted resources that go toward pet projects and other high value items that fail miserably. The difference of cou…

> There’s a continuous stream of evidence to the contrary, particularly if you’ve ever worked for large companies and seen the kind of wasted resources that go toward pet projects and other high value items that fail miserably.

There's also a continuous stream of evidence not to the contrary, particularly if you've ever worked for the government and seen the kind of wasted resources that go toward pet projects and other high value items that fail miserably.

The difference of course is that one costs taxpayers whereas the other costs shareholders, and in one case (government and tax payers) the only feedback mechanism is votes every couple of years, which don't really make any difference because incumbent reelection rates are in the high 90s even though Congress's approval ratings often drop into single digits. Whereas shareholders (or their proxies, mutual funds) can simply sell a company's stock if it looks like the company is wasting resources; stocks get traded every day.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#297

Post by _gi12 »

danielhughes wrote: post #226

I've often read headlines noting that the tax-prep lobby spends huge sums to preserve the status quo. But the numbers quoted in the article as evidence don't appear to support that claim. $6.6m seems low relative to these figures https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2018&inde... * *I can't vouch for this site or its data Relevant quote from the Tech Crunch article: "One reason why folks Congress could b…

As noted by the economist Luigi Zingales in his book "A Capitalism for the People", companies that are receiving subsidies (or other favorable treatment from the government) are highly incentivized to keep receiving those subsidies. For example, if the tax preparation industry stands to lose $100 million if e-file becomes free, they will lobby up to that amount to retain the status quo.

The problem is that those who wish to reform the status quo are not as well funded or financially incentivized to create a counter-lobby. Ordinary citizens, who would benefit the most from making e-file free, would have to form a counter-lobby group and put up at least $6 million in order to have the same level of access as the tax preparation companies.

Zingales' proposed solution is to do away with subsidies and special treatment for individual companies, as they inevitably lead to cronyism.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#298

Post by Calloggs »

Planet Money covered tax filing a few years ago and visited it again recently: https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...

My understanding is that the main opposition appears to be (1) the tax preparation lobby to protect their business interests and (2) anti-tax activists that believe that making people calculate their own taxes will make them more aware of how much they are paying in taxes.

The second argument blows my mind because I can't imagine that the set of people who would just pay the IRS without double checking their math are reviewing the tax filings from the third party they use right now. In other words, I would really like to see a survey of how people currently file their taxes in comparison to how they think they would if there was an IRS free filing for everyone or something like the ReadyReturn mentioned in the NPR story.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#299

Post by tootie »

j16sdiz wrote: post #238
Nikbul wrote: post #219

If you follow down the original on ProPublica and find comments there, you will see that there was no such provision. And the one that actually referencing IRS is says that IRS should continue to cooperate with private sector to make free tax filing and must maintain free portal. I would like to see actual provision to which this website referencing, otherwise it is click bait.

It's in the referenced contracts. That statute states IRS should continue the program (67 Fed. Reg. 67247), "including any subsequent agreements and governing rules established pursuant thereto." In 67 Fed. Reg. 67247: "During the term of this Agreement, the IRS will not compete with the Consortium in providing free, on-line tax return preparation and filing services to taxpayers."

Yeah, and unless the IRS has imminent plans to implement free tax filing this new clause has no real effect. It's not a constitutional amendment, if the IRS wants to offer this service in 5 years they'll probably need a huge multi-year appropriation and this clause to be revoked. Adding it in to this bill costs nothing and probably made the GOP reps willing to sign on.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#300

Post by fattire »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #285
rogerkirkness wrote: post #247

The easier it is the file taxes, the closer you get to a direct link to your bank account where you "don't have to think about it". Affordances and friction can be good. And if you (actually) believe in equality, those affordances should apply to all.

Ugh, I hate this argument so much. It's the argument Grover Norquist goes around making to every Republican in Congress that that (in addition to Intuit's lobbying efforts) to stop this from ever happening. (There's a great episode of Planet Money [1] about it.) In addition to just about every major country other than the US, California already has this and it's absolutely fantastic. I've literally never heard anyone…

+1 on that Planet Money episode. Everyone in this thread should give it a listen.

The IRS could no doubt offer a great "public option" for tax filing software that would blow the others out of the water, AND be free. We need this.

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