Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing • Hacker News Board

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#271

Post by anitil » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:34 AM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #215

anitil wrote: post #213

Something seems a bit off here - the article points to $6.6 million in lobbying and a direct contribution of $16,000. The ROI on those costs must be stupendous! Say 100 Million people file taxes in the US, it doesn't take long to hit 10x or 100x returns. Am I missing something? (I'm not from the US)

Aside from the free file program, which is a partnership with private companies, the IRS does offer a bare bones free fillable forms tax filing application. For most filers with W2 income, there’s nothing to it and they could easily do that. It’s fairly simple and you just need to read the directions and do maybe a half dozen additions and subtractions. Where the real return has come in is the millions, if not billio…

Ah yes I forgot the US has a separate state tax system. In Aus the federal government distributes taxes to the states (which of course is highly controversial amongst the state governments but the average person couldn't care less)

You can also claim back the cost of filing here I believe, so if you need to use a third party they are essentially paid by the government. Maybe that's why they make it so easy here?

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#272

Post by shhehebehdh » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

rogerkirkness wrote: post #247

The easier it is the file taxes, the closer you get to a direct link to your bank account where you "don't have to think about it". Affordances and friction can be good. And if you (actually) believe in equality, those affordances should apply to all.

> And if you (actually) believe in equality, those affordances should apply to all.

Assuming one actually believes it’s an affordance, as opposed to a pointless inconvenience and cash grab. I suspect those whose views you’re attempting to impugn generally have the latter viewpoint.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#273

Post by arkades » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

mattferderer wrote: post #265

If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000. Has anyone used Turbo Tax or H&R "free" versions to file? I can't use them & last time I tried they charged you to submit your taxes electronically but otherwise it was simple & easy. I also know many cities offer services to help people file simple taxes for free. I believe this bill also states the IRS cannot se…

> If I read this right, you can still use the free service the IRS provides if you make less than $66,000.

You did not. You can contact the private companies such as H&R Block and request Their free service if you make less than 66k - and subject yourself to their upselling and scam artistry, to try and get you to pay anything more than "free."

> I don't expect the IRS to make software for complicated taxes as that's a very difficult challenge

The vast majority of people file extremely simple taxes, as they're salaried workers with minimal assets. Most first-world countries provide a pre-populated tax form with the relevant data (since your employer already submits it), for you to peruse, edit, and hit the submit button on. If other countries do it without a problem, I don't see why it's too technically difficult for us to do the same.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#274

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #256

peteretep wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone seriously believe that the IRS would do better? It’s interesting to see the same arguments resurface as they do for healthcare. Most non-Americans here live in countries where salaried employees have almost zero contact with the country’s ex agency. No returns, no filing, it all just magically happens behind the scenes. So it’s kinda weird to hear Americans say “that’s impossible! How can you trust gove…

To be fair, American exceptionalism has little to do with the glories of our IRS. Our tax code is also absurdly complicated- https://www.businessinsider.com/2014-how-many-pages-in-the-u... as an example. As I've said elsewhere, some of the most significant opposition to the IRS pre-filing taxes is trusting that it operates in good faith - or at least competently - and appropriate applies all deductions that a person…

that concern is simply not valid. The IRS would send you a proposed return and you could make whatever changes you want to make.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#275

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #267

ahoy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

House Representatives have 2 year terms. If you'd like to hold onto that job for longer than 2 years, you have to campaign again, which means raising money again. Do you think TurboTax is going to keep investing in a congressperson who isn't doing what they want?

This is why congress should be a conscripted service. With a limit of two terms.... should only be able to vote to keep a certain person in office, but all persons in office should be selected just like jury duty. Want to know how fucking retarded the world is. Do this. but at least it will diminish corruption from the likes of Pelosy and others who spend DECADES in their positions...

[deleted]

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#276

Post by crispinb » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:37 AM UTC

Citizen overheads for essential services are as high or higher in the US as in mainstream developed nations, but laws dictated by corporations mandating (or making essential-in-practise) private provision clumsily hide them behind a fake 'low tax' banner.

Here in Aus our ATO makes the (dead simple) etax directly available to end users. Its popularity speaks for itself, and there'd be hell to pay if the ATO ever removed the service. Cf public healthcare etc - corporations are rightly scared of public provision. People like it & it's very sticky.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#277

Post by rayiner » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:38 AM UTC

dgacmu wrote: post #262

chillacy wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$16k to sell out? Don't these people raise millions?

Big donors are a high return-on-time for busy politicians. I donated the max (2*$2700) to a few candidates during the previous midterm elections, and was (naively) surprised to be invited to have brief 1:1 meetings with each of them. Money speaks depressingly loudly in politics. Corporations have to go through PACs, but many have their own (Intuit has their "21st Century Leadership Fund" PAC, which you can view here:…

> Money speaks depressingly loudly in politics.

I don't know what's disheartening about it. Here in D.C., Democrats are in an ideological war with Republicans. Money is necessary to fuel the war machine: https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015.... Of course they want to get larger donors more involved.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#278

Post by cure » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:38 AM UTC

danielhughes wrote: post #226

I've often read headlines noting that the tax-prep lobby spends huge sums to preserve the status quo. But the numbers quoted in the article as evidence don't appear to support that claim. $6.6m seems low relative to these figures https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2018&inde... * *I can't vouch for this site or its data Relevant quote from the Tech Crunch article: "One reason why folks Congress could b…

Those numbers sound about right. It is surprisingly cheap to influence our Representatives and Senators.

Maybe it would be within range of a decent crowdsourcing campaign to raise the amount of cash to buy enough influence and lobbying to move the needle on things that are in the public interest, like this issue.

Ugh. If only more of our Representatives and Senators actually worked for the people, rather than for whomever promises them the most money...

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#279

Post by PhantomGremlin » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:38 AM UTC

erichurkman wrote: post #237

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #222

I think this is a great idea. The risk of the IRS totally screwing up is just too high. And having an outside contractor do it is potentially even worse. E.g. the State of Oregon contracted with Oracle to create a health insurance marketplace. $200 million dollars later there was nothing but lawsuits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon Let that sink in. Two hundred million dollars and they couldn't get a fuck…

The IRS already does your taxes based on the information they already have. Ever had the IRS helpfully "correct" your filed taxes and send you more money or send you a bill? You can dispute it, but in the multiple times it has happened to me, they were right, and refunded or charged me sometimes modest sometimes small amounts. They could've just done that and saved me the $$ spent on Intuit (do it yourself) or accoun…

in the multiple times it has happened to me, they were right, and refunded or charged me sometimes modest sometimes small amounts

The one time it happened to me was much more opaque. Basically, some years after filing, the IRS said something like "you owe us an extra $5". Without much explanation as to why.

Okay, easy thing is to pay $5. But what if it was $500? Still not cost effective to pay an accountant to help you understand why. And what if it's $5,000? Is it worth battling a Kafkaesque bureaucracy for that? What if it's $50,000?

The current system sucks but it sure is better than having the starting point for taxes being the government tell you exactly how much you owe them and you having to battle them to prove otherwise.

Re: Congress Is About to Ban the US Government from Offering Free Online Tax Filing

#280

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:40 AM UTC

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #245

internet_user wrote: post #235

Would be even nicer if taxpayers would have to remit taxes on their own, instead of automatic deductions by the employer. Preferably, they'd have to count paper bills with their own hands, savoring each one for just a moment, before handing it over to the government.

I've often lamented a system that makes people feel good about getting back money that was already theirs (without interest) and calling it free money.

That's how we learn how great BB is.