US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums • Hacker News Board

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#71

Post by learc83 » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:20 PM UTC

shados wrote: post #49

penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

Someone else beat me to it, but being Canadian who moved to the US, I can kind of see where some people are coming from. If you're young healthy, have a good job and are a bit short sighted, you're way better off in the US (with little to no insurance or a crappy high deductible plan) in term of take home pay. Even if you're not healthy, if you have a lot of money, you're also way better off since wait times in afflu…

>Something that isn't always brought up too is things like dental, which wasn't covered up there so you needed private insurance anyway, and very few of my employers offered compared to my US employers.

Most employer provided dental plans have a $1,000 or $2,000 cap.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#72

Post by mikeash » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #68

maxxxxx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family in Germany throws a fit when they have to pay 50 Euro for something. In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits.

> In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits. My wife and I have never paid four figures for a doctor visit, despite having two surgeries (one oral), a calf strain, and a dislocated shoulder (with ER visit) between us. The state of medical care in the US is bad enough as it is; you don't need to make up hyperbolic bullshit to make it seem worse.

I went to the ER thinking I was having a heart attack, and it turned out there was nothing wrong. The doctor who saw me afterwards thought it might have been intestinal spams. I got to pay $6,000 for that bit of entertainment.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#73

Post by scj » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

shados wrote: post #49

penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

Someone else beat me to it, but being Canadian who moved to the US, I can kind of see where some people are coming from. If you're young healthy, have a good job and are a bit short sighted, you're way better off in the US (with little to no insurance or a crappy high deductible plan) in term of take home pay. Even if you're not healthy, if you have a lot of money, you're also way better off since wait times in afflu…

Be careful when telling anecdotes, the implementation of health care is a provincial matter.

I can see my family doctor within zero to two days, assuming I don't use the practice's walk-in clinic first.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#74

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #36

penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

I find it ironic that you stated the answer to your own question and didn't notice. That is, how notoriously terrible the government is at organization is a major reason for why people are against universal healthcare. Whether their concerns are overblown or not I leave to opinion. But that is a major fear for many.

I've always found it slightly amusing that the mostly unchallenged conventional wisdom is that private enterprise is more efficient and better organized that the government. Sometimes I wonder if the people who really believe that have ever worked for a large corporation.

I also think people forget that, in any case, the gov't is not a private enterprise and efficiency is actually not their first mandate, it's effectiveness.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#75

Post by fzeroracer » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #36

penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

I find it ironic that you stated the answer to your own question and didn't notice. That is, how notoriously terrible the government is at organization is a major reason for why people are against universal healthcare. Whether their concerns are overblown or not I leave to opinion. But that is a major fear for many.

Are corporations really that much better though when it comes to organization?

We've just offloaded all of the terrible organization to large corporations like ISPs or health insurers, which don't actually have the consumers best interests in mind. I've worked for a government contractor in the past and I can tell you that private companies will do everything they can to drag their feet or siphon money while creating bureaucracy on the level of any government agency.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#76

Post by munk-a » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #47

This analysis ignores VAT taxes entirely, which can add significantly to an employee’s tax burden.

VAT taxes (or sales tax in the US) will tend to more heavily effect lower income workers, which will not be the majority of people on HN. VAT taxes are heavily regressive and, outside of the luxury class of such would be nice to see phased out.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#77

Post by jakobegger » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #53

titanomachy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is the only place I know of where someone with good insurance coverage could expect to pay that much for a basic visit.

An emergency room is not a "basic visit".

Taking a kid with fever to the ER is about as basic as you get.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#78

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

z2 wrote: post #6

adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Not just that, they are also getting nothing in return. The US voters need to realize just how much are they getting fucked over by the military-industrial complex. I’m not against taxes, I’m against taxes that go to pay for wars as opposed to medical insurance, infrastructure and education.

That budget seems to be always nonnegotiable, despite the occasional media outrage. Realistically, how can US voters change this? As an aside, the US is the only country I've seen give military personnel priority boarding for civilian flights. With all due respect to veterans, it seems so strange to do this sort of worshiping in what is effectively peacetime.

It's a small thing, and I consider it a bit of payback for what society did to veterans back in the days of Vietnam.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#79

Post by wirrbel » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #53

titanomachy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is the only place I know of where someone with good insurance coverage could expect to pay that much for a basic visit.

An emergency room is not a "basic visit".

It is a basic visit. I attended a first-aid training for new parents here in my home country and the general advice was to seek help if in doubt, at night times by calling an ambulance or visiting, well, the emergency room.

In two years we were there with our baby two times. Not charged a penny. During this time, I went once, my wife went once. In all instances we were reassured that it was appropriate to visit the hospital instead of visiting the GP the next day.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#80

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, Apr 08, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #68

maxxxxx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family in Germany throws a fit when they have to pay 50 Euro for something. In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits.

> In the US you can happy if your cost for seeing a doctor is less than 4 digits. My wife and I have never paid four figures for a doctor visit, despite having two surgeries (one oral), a calf strain, and a dislocated shoulder (with ER visit) between us. The state of medical care in the US is bad enough as it is; you don't need to make up hyperbolic bullshit to make it seem worse.

I fell down the stairs and had a muscle spasm in my back. Had to go an ER. I had insurance that was considered good and it still cost me $350 for 10 minutes with the doctor and a bottle of muscle relaxers.