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US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

peoplespolicyproject.org

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Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#41

Post by munk-a »

ajross wrote: post #31
munk-a wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or really any public pension. I feel like if you're <40 then you should be planning for Social Security to not exist when you get old, anything else seems overly optimistic.

There's literally no analysis that shows social security completely failing at any point. That's spin you're getting from partisan media, and it's absolutely infuriating the people allow this to persist. In a few years, given no changes, the cash flow will go negative and we'll begin spending down the trust fund. By 2035 or so (I forget the numbers, and the projections tend to vary widely anyway because of differing…

Oh sorry, I'll clarify... My concern is not that it will become untenable and money will run out - my concern is that it will be slashed into the ground as part of an "entitlement cut" - it's actually pretty unlikely given the party of cutting things that people like gets a lot of votes from the social security crowd, but there is only so much more than can slice off Medicaid before they start looking elsewhere.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#42

Post by maxxxxx »

munk-a wrote: post #17
viburnum wrote: post #8

It’s worse if you include 401k payments to offset a more generous public pension.

Or really any public pension. I feel like if you're <40 then you should be planning for Social Security to not exist when you get old, anything else seems overly optimistic.

" Social Security to not exist when you get old,"

that's totally self defeating. There are simple adjustments that can be done to make it viable long term. But there are quite few people in DC who desperately want it to fail to show that government is no good.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#43

Post by Someone1234 »

btilly wrote: post #36
penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

I find it ironic that you stated the answer to your own question and didn't notice. That is, how notoriously terrible the government is at organization is a major reason for why people are against universal healthcare. Whether their concerns are overblown or not I leave to opinion. But that is a major fear for many.

Medicare seems to work just fine.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#44

Post by munk-a »

paulkon wrote: post #38
akhilcacharya wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that started paying into SS a few years ago this sounds more like a cynical self-fulfilling prophecy more than anything else.

You're paying into SS but that money is not being set aside for you, it's being used for current retirees. The next generation will have to pay into SS for you and betting that SS will not change it's payout conditions till then, in the midst of mounting debt liabilities and potentially shrinking contributions, is quite optimistic.

Just to clarify, your payments aren't being specifically earmarked for you (this isn't a government run retirement plan) they are being pooled and that pool is being used to pay for current and future SS beneficiaries, but the pool isn't going to run out anytime soon. It's more likely that it will be diverted for political reasons and defunded - to speak precisely the "entitlements" you paid for will be taken away without recompense.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#45

Post by jhayward »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #23
penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

I grew up in Canada so I totally understand why people are against universal health care... Check out the wait times for MRI scans that are published by the various Canadian provinces. 90 days' wait is not uncommon. Meanwhile in the US it can be had in 3 days or so in every decent sized suburb or city.

An MRI that you can book in 3 days, if you have the money. I know people with health care insurance that had to postpone imaging for months in order to be able to afford the cost.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#46

Post by titanomachy »

zrail wrote: post #30
Someone1234 wrote: post #19

I moved to the US from a country with socialised medicine. When you include premiums then taxes in both were roughly similar if not a little higher in the US (ignoring cost of living differences). But even that doesn't include the real sting on the tail of US medicine. You pay a fairly high health insurance premium, but if you actually need health services you then pay again through the nose even with insurance "disc…

$300 is a steal.

The US is the only place I know of where someone with good insurance coverage could expect to pay that much for a basic visit.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#48

Post by acdha »

btilly wrote: post #36
penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

I find it ironic that you stated the answer to your own question and didn't notice. That is, how notoriously terrible the government is at organization is a major reason for why people are against universal healthcare. Whether their concerns are overblown or not I leave to opinion. But that is a major fear for many.

> how notoriously terrible the government is at organization is a major reason

A major propaganda point, not a reason based on data. It’s really hard to find a first-world country which has a medical system which doesn’t compare favorably with American insurance companies on either cost or quality — the baked-in conflicts of interest are too powerful.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#49

Post by shados »

penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

Someone else beat me to it, but being Canadian who moved to the US, I can kind of see where some people are coming from.

If you're young healthy, have a good job and are a bit short sighted, you're way better off in the US (with little to no insurance or a crappy high deductible plan) in term of take home pay.

Even if you're not healthy, if you have a lot of money, you're also way better off since wait times in affluent cities are way, WAAAAAY, _WAAAAAY_ better.

When I lived up north, getting an apointment with my family doctor was a 3+ month deal, most people didn't even have a family doctor because almost none took new patients, wait times for surgeries were so high my grandma almost died while waiting for hers (and did end up dying because of lack of care in the end). And i think in some places they're talking about no longer covering some services like regular check ups?

I had a bunch of lingering non-critical conditions I never got checked until I moved to the US, because it just wasn't worth the trouble, and was able to get everything squared away in record time since I did.

Something that isn't always brought up too is things like dental, which wasn't covered up there so you needed private insurance anyway, and very few of my employers offered compared to my US employers.

It's completely messed up and only benefit people who don't think far enough or have money up the wazoo, but for those, the socialized system would be worse.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#50

Post by perfmode »

tathougies wrote: post #34

Individual US tax payers pay for most of the world's security. This is one tax of being the global super power, so it's not particularly surprising that when you include all things the US tax payer pays for privately that is taxed in other countries, you arrive at a number higher than other similar countries. In reality, there is no country with which we can fairly compare US tax rates.

I wouldn’t say the United States provides security when our actions and interventions tend to not be just.

We are just a Mafia.

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