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Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

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Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#121

Post by gumby »

black_puppydog wrote: post #65
schrectacular wrote: post #48

It seems like rights holders have realized that carpet bombing is a cheap and "effective" strategy. There are reports ( https://youtu.be/JwG0bQ7WC3c ) of music copyright holders reporting the use of even a single chord in YouTube videos. This strategy appears to be having a chilling effect across multiple platforms. Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at s…

After the new EU copyright directive passed parliament, I went on a bit of a hunt for reasons. Outside Germany, we simply didn't get traction for protest. And one reason people gave was "it won't be enforcable anyhow". This here clearly shows what Germans have known for years thanks to our stupid "Abmahnwesen" legal abnormality: enforcement is not the bottleneck when private entities sue other private entities. It wo…

> And one reason people gave was "it won't be enforcable anyhow".

This has been a surprisingly common view in France* for a long time. I consider it an unfortunate attitude that breeds cynicism and allows laws to be passed that simply express a desire, rather than laws that might make things better. I understand there can be protest exhaustion and one has to pick one's battles.

* I mention France by name only because the only European countries I've lived in are France and Germany.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#123

Post by jakobdabo »

schrectacular wrote: post #48

It seems like rights holders have realized that carpet bombing is a cheap and "effective" strategy. There are reports ( https://youtu.be/JwG0bQ7WC3c ) of music copyright holders reporting the use of even a single chord in YouTube videos. This strategy appears to be having a chilling effect across multiple platforms. Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at s…

Why do YouTube and others allow mass reporting at scale? They should use a CAPTCHA for each reported URL to ensure that the reports are being sent by humans.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#124

Post by tzs »

schrectacular wrote: post #48

It seems like rights holders have realized that carpet bombing is a cheap and "effective" strategy. There are reports ( https://youtu.be/JwG0bQ7WC3c ) of music copyright holders reporting the use of even a single chord in YouTube videos. This strategy appears to be having a chilling effect across multiple platforms. Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at s…

> Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at scale, meaning the small guy suffers.

They don't have to investigate. They could simply follow the procedure given in the DMCA.

1. Rights holder sends a notice claiming infringement and meeting the various requirements for such a notice given in the DMCA.

2. The service provider removes the material and promptly notifies the user who put the material up.

3. The user can file a counter notice, disputing that the material infringes.

4. The service provider passes the counter notice back to the rights holder. If the rights holder does not file an infringement lawsuit against the user within 14 days, the service provider puts the material back up.

If they do this, this gets the service provider off the hook for liability to the rights holder if it turns out that the work infringes, and it gets them off the hook for any liability to the user if it turns out that the work does not infringe.

A rights holder could send notices for ridiculous things, like things that are obviously fair use, but unless they are willing to actually go to court they will just get counter notices for most and the material will go back up.

The sites that have implemented their own systems that take down upon any claim and make it hard or impossible for the poster to dispute this are going way beyond what the law requires them to do.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#125

Post by Youden »

rlue wrote: post #17
Asooka wrote: post #9

Good. Piracy must be eradicated if culture is to survive.

Culture != commerce. The very fact that piracy is sustained by volunteer communities should speak for itself here, but if you need more evidence, consider: > The scope of music collected on What.cd was almost incomprehensibly vast: More than a million distinct “releases” of songs, albums, and bootlegs. > Bach cello suites. Obscure Chinese indie rock. Nigerian hip-hop. Thai psych-funk from the 1970s. Every release of…

Not arguing that there's no loss but Redacted, What.cd's successor, is currently at 840k releases and 725k artists. As far as pure numbers are concerned that's a decent recovery.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#126

Post by Mirioron »

tzs wrote: post #124
schrectacular wrote: post #48

It seems like rights holders have realized that carpet bombing is a cheap and "effective" strategy. There are reports ( https://youtu.be/JwG0bQ7WC3c ) of music copyright holders reporting the use of even a single chord in YouTube videos. This strategy appears to be having a chilling effect across multiple platforms. Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at s…

> Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at scale, meaning the small guy suffers. They don't have to investigate. They could simply follow the procedure given in the DMCA. 1. Rights holder sends a notice claiming infringement and meeting the various requirements for such a notice given in the DMCA. 2. The service provider removes the material and promptly not…

Even if they go back up again it still requires a lot of effort to counter notice it, because it requires a human to do so. The claim is lobbed by an algorithm though.

There need to be severe consequences for claiming everything.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#127

Post by Mirioron »

black_puppydog wrote: post #65
schrectacular wrote: post #48

It seems like rights holders have realized that carpet bombing is a cheap and "effective" strategy. There are reports ( https://youtu.be/JwG0bQ7WC3c ) of music copyright holders reporting the use of even a single chord in YouTube videos. This strategy appears to be having a chilling effect across multiple platforms. Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at s…

After the new EU copyright directive passed parliament, I went on a bit of a hunt for reasons. Outside Germany, we simply didn't get traction for protest. And one reason people gave was "it won't be enforcable anyhow". This here clearly shows what Germans have known for years thanks to our stupid "Abmahnwesen" legal abnormality: enforcement is not the bottleneck when private entities sue other private entities. It wo…

In Estonia there was barely any talk about article 13. When it passed it was a 3 sentence article in the national newspaper. We had some follow up later, but it was mostly a politician saying that everything's fine.

People are unaware.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#128

Post by Mirioron »

jakobdabo wrote: post #123
schrectacular wrote: post #48

It seems like rights holders have realized that carpet bombing is a cheap and "effective" strategy. There are reports ( https://youtu.be/JwG0bQ7WC3c ) of music copyright holders reporting the use of even a single chord in YouTube videos. This strategy appears to be having a chilling effect across multiple platforms. Copyright claims are super easy to make at scale, but the platforms themselves cannot investigate at s…

Why do YouTube and others allow mass reporting at scale? They should use a CAPTCHA for each reported URL to ensure that the reports are being sent by humans.

They would probably be held liable under DMCA if they did that.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#129

Post by Mirioron »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #90
tsehd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seriously should be a law against such "carpet bombing".

The hated copyright directive contains provisions that require the creation of mechanism for challenging wrongful take downs, which if implemented properly would resolve the issue.

Except that it will only apply in the case of a real copyright takedown notice. Platforms don't like dealing with legal disputes, so they will create their own way to send notices of infringement. A platform doesn't have to publish your work, which means that their private solution for takedowns will not be held to that requirement.

It's the EU, so the law being divorced from reality is to be expected.

Re: Reddit's /r/Piracy is deleting almost ten years of history to avoid ban

#130

Post by Mirioron »

panarky wrote: post #97
wsgeorge wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan, despite all its vileness, has convinced me of the necessity to maintain as much unrestrained human freedom in (at least) some quarters of the Internet as is possible. Such freedom seems so essential to Internet culture that, in my opinion, it must be protected.

> 4chan, despite all its vileness, has convinced me of the necessity to maintain as much unrestrained human freedom ... Can you provide an example of something valuable you found on 4chan/8chan that could not be found on a site with less "vileness"?

Freedom of expression.
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