Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 353 posts

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#221

Post by onion2k »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #202
rndgermandude wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet isn't exempted. You're just looking at the wrong party for liability. The people who actually put up those live streams are liable, and abusing facebook's service. Same as TV and newspapers; you don't sue Comcast or the guy who installed your satellite dish, you sue the TV station; You don't sue the paper boy, you sue the news paper.

Facebook, Youtube or whichever platform is the broadcaster in this instance. If they're not, why do we sue the TV station rather than the production company of the programme? CBS can yell "don't look at us, we didn't make Game of Thrones". It's their exception that is looking increasingly absurd.

We don't sue the company who owns the radio tower if it's terrestrial TV, or the hosting company if it's on-demand, or the bandwidth provider if it's cable. The important bit is who makes the decision to broadcast something; in the case of a TV show it's CBS, and in the case of a live stream on Facebook that's the user.

I think a potential solution would be to delay livestreams by 20 minutes for anyone who isn't doesn't have a direct and established connection (eg following for more than 24 hours) to the broadcaster to give platforms time to censor the worst stuff. Obviously this would make platforms responsible for effective and fast moderation though...

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#222

Post by djaychela »

acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

If they don't know what's being posted, maybe they should change how their platform works? If a normal business behaved like this and then just shrugged their shoulders, no one would stand for it. A traditional broadcaster would have their licence revoked. A print publisher would be in serious trouble. But when it happens online, somehow it's someone else's problem. This seems odd to me.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#223

Post by jaabe »

acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

The city isn’t responsible for what gets thrown on its streets, we still sweep them.

I think the time for platforms and major tech companies to dodge their responsibility has passed. At least in large parts of the western world and I personally welcome it. I’m European though, we (at least some of us) tend to like regulating companies.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#224

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

> I stopped reading after this point.

Slightly off topic, but if you make this a habit, i.e. stop reading after the first sentence you disagree with/sounds like bs to you, there is no chance of getting out of the filter bubble as you're building it yourself. Of course this applies equally to me and all other participants of global information exchange.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#225

Post by jocoda »

rndgermandude wrote: post #176
llukas wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, the idea that harsh penalties and regulations are going to prevent psychopaths from broadcasting their killing spree is ridiculous Nobody is broadcasting in TV or newspapers - they are actually liable for content that gets published on those platforms. Maybe we finally remove exception for internet?

The internet isn't exempted. You're just looking at the wrong party for liability. The people who actually put up those live streams are liable, and abusing facebook's service. Same as TV and newspapers; you don't sue Comcast or the guy who installed your satellite dish, you sue the TV station; You don't sue the paper boy, you sue the news paper.

>The people who actually put up those live streams are liable

Yet we insist on allowing anonymity on the net.

Either you know exactly who is doing what and can then make them liable for any consequences that follow from their actions OR you allow anonymity and live with the consequences of that decision as dark as these may be.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#226

Post by bksenior »

Tomte wrote: post #139
acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform Of course they do. People report. And in my personal experience, Facebook always(!) replies "not against community standards", even when clear-cut crimes like rape threats.

I guess heres my bigger question. If some individual where to have knowledge of a murder or rape and it came to light that they were intentionally with holding the evidence of the crime, would this individual be committing a crime themselves?

I just imagine if someone found a snuff video on my basement that I would be in violation of a law.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#227

Post by llukas »

rndgermandude wrote: post #176
llukas wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, the idea that harsh penalties and regulations are going to prevent psychopaths from broadcasting their killing spree is ridiculous Nobody is broadcasting in TV or newspapers - they are actually liable for content that gets published on those platforms. Maybe we finally remove exception for internet?

The internet isn't exempted. You're just looking at the wrong party for liability. The people who actually put up those live streams are liable, and abusing facebook's service. Same as TV and newspapers; you don't sue Comcast or the guy who installed your satellite dish, you sue the TV station; You don't sue the paper boy, you sue the news paper.

Not true: https://www.fastcompany.com/90273352/maybe-its-time-to-take-...

(c) (1) No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#228

Post by gsich »

Tomte wrote: post #139
acdc4life wrote: post #35

"[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm." I stopped reading after this point. Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Th…

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform Of course they do. People report. And in my personal experience, Facebook always(!) replies "not against community standards", even when clear-cut crimes like rape threats.

>Of course they do. People report.

Yes, but the damage has been done then. Parent is right. Facebook doesn't know what is being posted, only afterwards, when people tell them, then they know.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#229

Post by ben_w »

miluge wrote: post #210
llukas wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, the idea that harsh penalties and regulations are going to prevent psychopaths from broadcasting their killing spree is ridiculous Nobody is broadcasting in TV or newspapers - they are actually liable for content that gets published on those platforms. Maybe we finally remove exception for internet?

TV is usually not user generated content though...

And when it is, the TV programs (where I grew up) need a delay in the loop so they can beep-out rude words if it’s before 21:00. Even mere expletives, let alone directed personal threats of violence, get censored on TV and radio.

Re: Facebook are 'morally bankrupt liars' says New Zealand's privacy commissioner

#230

Post by drewmol »

o10449366 wrote: post #68
maksimum wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook has no clue what kind of stuff gets posted on their platform, and their AI isn't powerful enough to detect it. Almost certainly Facebook's ML can identify the themes of almost all content on their platform with high accuracy. That's a pretty easy problem at their scale.

What makes you say it's an easy problem? They were able to block 1.2 million copycat videos of the shooting, but 0.3 million still got through. YouTube also struggled to remove them and even went so far to disable uploads entirely for a period because their AI was insufficient. The difference is they just declined to release specific numbers so they took less flack. When you literally have thousands of humans all det…

>is there something wrong with the people who repeatedly try and upload and share videos of mass shootings?

Yes. A detection system can be used to limit occurrences of this issue.

In this case, an issue with the detection system used on Facebook was demonstrated by a 20% failure rate.

Post reply on HN