Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

doximity.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 337 posts

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#211

Post by colechristensen »

hatefulmoron wrote: post #145
colechristensen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There should be laws Philosophical problems aren't solved by legislation, it is important that people stop looking towards lawmakers to push their morals. Telling good stories – tragedies – well enters them into the popular mythos effects better choices.

>Philosophical problems aren't solved by legislation, it is important that people stop looking towards lawmakers to push their morals. Murder, rape and theft are all philosophical questions, why are they easier to resolve through legislation?

What isn't philosophical question? You could say "nothing" and defend it well but that transforms my point from "some things are better off solved with other than laws" to "laws are pointless". Obviously I'm not trying to say the latter.

The issues you mention aren't philosophical questions in the way I am trying to express because there really isn't much of an open question. How many people are openly advocating that murder is generally acceptable? There are corner cases, specific instances, etc. that are up for debate but on the whole there is little question, murder is wrong and there need to be legal remedies when it happens.

That is wholly different from the end-of-life issues we are talking about. People's opinions and behaviors are all over the map and there is generally no consensus about anything. It is not a problem that is obvious and it is not a problem which has existed for much time. Murder has existed forever, the ethical question about when and how to use medicine to extend life is very new and has had only a little public discourse.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#212

Post by tyrust »

ggm wrote: post #202

Maybe they did lie, but the core point is, did they do everything they felt they should ? Arguably no: they should have stopped, reviewed, and helped her and the family decide to withdraw treatment and die with some personal dignity, but the time for that was far earlier. Having had two in-laws die with medical staff disrespecting their end-of-life issues (in different ways) I feel quite strongly the 'do no harm' myt…

It sounds like they did do that though:

> He had spoken with her family innumerable times explaining her dismal prognosis, the virtues of palliation and hospice care, and the harms of overtreatment. Like many families, anything other than a “full code” meant giving up on their loved one. In the midst of tragedy, changing that mindset, like the code itself, was often an exercise in futility.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#213

Post by waltwalther »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #36

I have an incurable condition and spent about 3.5 months bedridden before finally getting a proper diagnosis. My condition has a significant respiratory component. While bedridden, I hallucinated wordless conversations with the Grim Reaper. One day, in the landscape of my mind, he rode up to me on a black steed, leaned down and peered into my face, then swirled around and rode off. I ran after him screaming "Don't le…

Beautifully written. Thank you for sharing. I hope you are well.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#214

Post by ggm »

tyrust wrote: post #212
ggm wrote: post #202

Maybe they did lie, but the core point is, did they do everything they felt they should ? Arguably no: they should have stopped, reviewed, and helped her and the family decide to withdraw treatment and die with some personal dignity, but the time for that was far earlier. Having had two in-laws die with medical staff disrespecting their end-of-life issues (in different ways) I feel quite strongly the 'do no harm' myt…

It sounds like they did do that though: > He had spoken with her family innumerable times explaining her dismal prognosis, the virtues of palliation and hospice care, and the harms of overtreatment. Like many families, anything other than a “full code” meant giving up on their loved one. In the midst of tragedy, changing that mindset, like the code itself, was often an exercise in futility.

Yes. He tried, and I like that. The system needs to change

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#216

Post by warbaker »

We didn't do everything we could, but this goes beyond palliative care.

We underinvested in research. We aren't as far along as we could be, and we're moving slower than we can.

We, the voting public, are responsible for this tragedy. The US allocated just 2% of its budget to scientific research, and we elected officials who want to push it lower still.

There shouldn't have been a tradeoff between quantity and quality of life. The real tradeoff was made years earlier, between research and slightly more material comfort. We chose material comfort, and she paid the price for it.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#217

Post by GalacticDomin8r »

learc83 wrote: post #196
jrnichols wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my own experience over the years, and if you'll please take the time to re-read what I said, you'll see I said "many" and not all. There are going to be differences, of course. Think back to the Terri Schiavo case. While she was apparently Catholic, the sentiment was the same. Her family believed that she was going to be healed by God (or Jesus, either one) and would make a full recovery. I also think t…

>Think back to the Terri Schiavo case. While she was apparently Catholic, the sentiment was the same. Her family believed that she was going to be healed by God (or Jesus, either one) and would make a full recovery. That's a mischaracterization of what happened. They had several arguments. 1. They believed that she wasn't actually in a persistent vegetative state, but that she was still conscious and could understand…

> It’s definitely not evidence of wide scale Christian refusal to accept death.

True if you are speaking only of the events you described. However you left out the national debate(and I use that word loosely) over the matter. That was evidence of wide scale Christian refusal to accept death. It took the typical form of the extremists appealing to and living under the shield of the larger group of religious believers who didn't exactly believe the same, but presumably felt some need to side with a "believer".

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#218

Post by throw7 »

belorn wrote: post #188
nlh wrote: post #142

I lost my dad recently (he was 84 and lived a wonderful and healthy life, which I consider a huge win for him). He had a terribly bad stroke that left him very much alive, but without the ability to speak, read, or write. He was a professional book reviewer and writer for much of his life, and continued to read, write, and think with voracity up until the minute before his stroke (he was setting up his Series 4 Apple…

A very close relative of mine got a similar massive stroke when he was around 60 that also hit the language center. Even if I was quite young I remember that moment of frustration in the hospital when when he could not talk with either of us. The doctor explained he would unlikely survive the night, and even if he did he would not be able to leave the hospital bed. His daughter did the same however what the person in…

Communication is key before a loved one ends up in these situations. I've gone through a similar situation to the experiences in this thread. It's so tough even so.

That said... my dad had a living will I didn't know about until he had a stroke... one of the most painful weeks of my life.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#219

Post by DoreenMichele »

waltwalther wrote: post #213
DoreenMichele wrote: post #36

I have an incurable condition and spent about 3.5 months bedridden before finally getting a proper diagnosis. My condition has a significant respiratory component. While bedridden, I hallucinated wordless conversations with the Grim Reaper. One day, in the landscape of my mind, he rode up to me on a black steed, leaned down and peered into my face, then swirled around and rode off. I ran after him screaming "Don't le…

Beautifully written. Thank you for sharing. I hope you are well.

Beautifully written.

Thank you. Most of my earned income comes from writing. So I've had a bit of practice.

I hope you are well.

Mostly, yes. Everything but my finances seems to be in reasonable shape, all things considered.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#220

Post by diminoten »

kzzzznot wrote: post #175
diminoten wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not my opinion, it's objective fact; after death there is literally nothingness forever, and even excruciating pain is something; you can react to it, decide things about it, etc. Those are facts . Also you know absolutely nothing about me. Don't pretend like you do.

You sound very sure and angry about all these things. What's really bothering you?

I am sure, I'm not angry, and nothing at all is bothering me. Why ask such a personal question that's completely off topic, though?
Post reply on HN