I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could • Hacker News Board

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#171

Post by diminoten » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

chmod775 wrote: post #168

diminoten wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An opinion can be false/wrong/a lie.

Something can't be an opinion and a lie by definition. Lying is consciously uttering something you belive to be untrue. It can't be your opinion at the same time. So unless you're planning to insult the people you are talking to by calling them dishonest, you should cease this way of discussing the topic. It's obvious you care greatly about this matter and tempers can understandably get heated, but people calling eac…

Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition.

Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud.

And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#172

Post by lurquer » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

adriand wrote: post #109

mikeash wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really strange to me. Christianity also teaches that death is temporary and you’ll be reunited with your loved ones (assuming everyone is righteous). Why such a fear of death?

I grew up in a conservative, Protestant family and I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this. A few points, simply based on the environment I grew up in, which means of course this is just one perspective on just one religious denomination - I won't provide more caveats than that: - Christians take the afterlife very seriously. One must be judged by God. Regardless of how confident you are in your final d…

Good post. The third bullet point is accurate. But, maybe needlessly complicated... In short, the law is clear: Thou shalt not kill. If someone's life is in your hands, inaction -- such as not consenting to a feeding tube or repirator for your unconscious relative -- is ethically the same as actively killing them.

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. But the qualms come from relatives not wanting to be responsible for killing grandpa.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#173

Post by pdonis » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #141

pdonis wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you call something someone else says a lie, that's not a statement of opinion. You're saying they said something false. That's a factual matter.

An opinion can be false/wrong/a lie.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Opinions are opinions: nobody knows for sure which ones are right or wrong. IMO you should retract your accusation of "lie" since you have admitted you were just stating your opinion. Your opinion might not agree with someone else's opinion, but that doesn't justify you accusing them of lying.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#174

Post by pdonis » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:31 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #171

chmod775 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something can't be an opinion and a lie by definition. Lying is consciously uttering something you belive to be untrue. It can't be your opinion at the same time. So unless you're planning to insult the people you are talking to by calling them dishonest, you should cease this way of discussing the topic. It's obvious you care greatly about this matter and tempers can understandably get heated, but people calling eac…

Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...

> I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie."

You can't know their opinion is wrong, because you've already admitted that's just your opinion. It's not a fact. Your opinions are not facts.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#175

Post by kzzzznot » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #127

monodeldiablo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your opinion. No matter how absolute you phrase it, it's not a fact. And I've seen enough suffering and death to know that not everybody shares your opinion. I've seen people who, when they were healthy, held opinions just like yours beg for death when their time had come. Count your blessings that you've not known pain, fear, or panic like the dying do.

It's not my opinion, it's objective fact; after death there is literally nothingness forever, and even excruciating pain is something; you can react to it, decide things about it, etc. Those are facts . Also you know absolutely nothing about me. Don't pretend like you do.

You sound very sure and angry about all these things. What's really bothering you?

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#176

Post by larkeith » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:41 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #36

I have an incurable condition and spent about 3.5 months bedridden before finally getting a proper diagnosis. My condition has a significant respiratory component. While bedridden, I hallucinated wordless conversations with the Grim Reaper. One day, in the landscape of my mind, he rode up to me on a black steed, leaned down and peered into my face, then swirled around and rode off. I ran after him screaming "Don't le…

Thank you for sharing.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#177

Post by asveikau » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #68

diminoten wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it makes zero sense. My grandfather had advanced Parkinson's, but had zero intention of dying to it or its cornucopia of related symptoms/effects. So what if he has a major disease that made life many orders of magnitude worse for him? Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. Giving up and accepting death may seem reasonable to some, but not for me or my grandfather. There's always a root cause, a…

>Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. I assure you that this is untrue. There's a reason why people on the upper floors of the World Trade Center jumped from the windows, and it's not because they expected a soft landing. There are many, many things in this world worse than a peaceful death.

I feel like that is a crappy example to shove in people's faces. I guarantee you there is a nonzero amount of people who did that on 9/11 who could have made it down safely and enjoyed the rest of their lives.

Actually it's a perfect example of the other kind of suicide, not due to permanent illness so much as temporary circumstances that could be resolved and lead to the person not wanting to do that. That is something for which friends, family, and medical professionals ought to intervene.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#178

Post by chriscappuccio » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #158

bloak wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose I might choose the excruciating pain if I were alone on a desert island with nobody watching. But if my wife and children were sitting round my death bed I think I'd prefer, for their benefit, to die in a dignified way. And in a timely manner so as not to keep them waiting. Death is not eternal nothingness. Life goes on.

Death absolutely is an eternal nothingness, don't fool yourself. Your kids, your wife, none of that matters after you're dead. It's literally irrelevant at that point.

Allow me to introduce you to our lord and savior, Jesus Christ.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#179

Post by sb8244 » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

I spent today in the hospital watching my grandmother come to terms that she is 99% likely on her death bed. I am happy that she chose a DNR over going out like this article.

I've thought a lot about death this weekend, as I knew what I was going into before I got here. The only real conclusion that I have is that I'd like to feel like I'm always doing my best to satisfy what I believe is a good life and to not be blindsided by it in life by coming to terms with it in a healthy way.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#180

Post by village-idiot » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

The interesting thing to me is that doctors die very differently from the rest of us. They’re far more likely to setup structures to avoid coding later in their life or when they’re dying.