Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

doximity.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 337 posts

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#81

Post by mikeash »

bg4 wrote: post #18
busterarm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some parents who had a child with an extremely rare degenerative disorder that attacks the nervous system. They were wealthy enough to afford extremely good care and as such, kept their poor suffering child "alive" for 12 years longer than anyone else who had ever had the same disease. Life expectancy of newborns with this disorder is about 1-3 years. At every turn, the doctors and nurses charged with the chil…

And what's to prevent insurance companies from exploiting those laws to reduce costs and increase profits?

What prevents it now?

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#82

Post by syshum »

marmaduke wrote: post #69
busterarm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some parents who had a child with an extremely rare degenerative disorder that attacks the nervous system. They were wealthy enough to afford extremely good care and as such, kept their poor suffering child "alive" for 12 years longer than anyone else who had ever had the same disease. Life expectancy of newborns with this disorder is about 1-3 years. At every turn, the doctors and nurses charged with the chil…

> laws preventing family members from prolonging the suffering This would be inconsistent with the profit motive, which incentivizes patient treatments not cures.

You do know that most hospitals in the US today are run by Non-profits right?

This tired old, inaccurate, and moronic belief that evil capitalism only wants to make people suffer, where good moral socialism would solve all of our medical problems fails even a elementary glace at history and reality

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#83

Post by bloak »

diminoten wrote: post #57
macintux wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to go out as a result of a series of violent mistakes trying to save my life. The problem is that excruciating pain is only obviously better than death if there’s something positive at the end of it. Otherwise it’s comparable to being tortured 24 hours a day for the rest of your life.

Sorry, but excruciating pain is always better than death, because death is eternal nothingness. At least excruciating pain is something.

I suppose I might choose the excruciating pain if I were alone on a desert island with nobody watching. But if my wife and children were sitting round my death bed I think I'd prefer, for their benefit, to die in a dignified way. And in a timely manner so as not to keep them waiting. Death is not eternal nothingness. Life goes on.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#84

Post by segmondy »

et2o wrote: post #2

Wonderful article. This is a not-uncommon situation in end of life care. It's difficult for a family to accept a tragedy like this, a loved young woman dying in the prime of her life from something untreatable. The families often are in almost some sort of denial (understandably, I'm saying that without judgment) and demand that everything be tried, even when it's futile and ends up making the situation worse like in…

It's also business. The hospital looks at how much money they will make vs lose if you stayed at the hospital and weigh it against the probability that you will survive. If it works against them they push towards hospice.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#85

Post by diminoten »

jdietrich wrote: post #68
diminoten wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it makes zero sense. My grandfather had advanced Parkinson's, but had zero intention of dying to it or its cornucopia of related symptoms/effects. So what if he has a major disease that made life many orders of magnitude worse for him? Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. Giving up and accepting death may seem reasonable to some, but not for me or my grandfather. There's always a root cause, a…

>Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. I assure you that this is untrue. There's a reason why people on the upper floors of the World Trade Center jumped from the windows, and it's not because they expected a soft landing. There are many, many things in this world worse than a peaceful death.

I assure you it is not untrue.

People failing to realize a truth doesn't make it less true.

Peaceful death is suicide, if chosen. Period.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#86

Post by pygy_ »

Pxtl wrote: post #49

I don't have asthma. My doctor says I have something milder than asthma. I have a puffer, and if you put me in the same room as a rabbit or guinea pig I will be struggling to breathe in about 20 minutes. I've lied awake at night coughing and hearing the accordion-like chorus of my wheezing windpipe. But it's not asthma. It has, however, made me very aware of what it feels like when lungs are not working well. Nothing…

I'm a doctor, and what you're describing sounds like textbook asthma. It could be a mild form, but it may be worth it to have a second opinion.

You may also want to buy a peak flow meter to quantify the obstruction when you have an attack (assuming you never had a spirometry while obstructed). Something like this will do:

https://www.amazon.com/Quest-AsthmaMD-Lung-Performance-Meter...

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#87

Post by chmod775 »

diminoten wrote: post #40

I want to go out as a result of a series of violent mistakes trying to save my life. Why would anyone want anything else? Peaceful death is basically suicide. Why do doctors continually perpetuate this notion that slipping softly into death (palliative care, hospice) is preferable to continually trying to avoid it by way of riskier and riskier attempts at treating the root cause? At the very least, we could be honest…

Yeah. No. Let me cut your crusade against the medical profession short by telling you that doctors are putting their money where their mouth is [1].

They see the kind of suffering that prolonging people's lives with certain conditions can inflict and choose to have none of it.

Other than that your comment is incredibly rude towards people who will do everything in their ability to keep you alive anyways - if you/family so insist - and also borders on being a conspiracy theory.

[1]: https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-di...

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#88

Post by epmaybe »

fencepost wrote: post #76

"Everything we could" [and more than we should] I can't help but wonder if there was anyone with medical training acting as a patient advocate in this and similar situations.

Doctors can undergo special training in 'palliative care'. These docs have a pretty broad spectrum in terms of when they become involved, but from my own experience they've been pretty good at being patient/family advocates to primary care teams. They should ideally get involved at the beginning of any chronic illness, to discuss goals of care regularly, and provide patients and families with resources for end of life care (e.g. hospice, home hospice, etc).

This is not the best explanation, but hopefully it brings you and other readers awareness of this growing specialty.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#89

Post by diminoten »

lolc wrote: post #62
diminoten wrote: post #40

I want to go out as a result of a series of violent mistakes trying to save my life. Why would anyone want anything else? Peaceful death is basically suicide. Why do doctors continually perpetuate this notion that slipping softly into death (palliative care, hospice) is preferable to continually trying to avoid it by way of riskier and riskier attempts at treating the root cause? At the very least, we could be honest…

In many cases, there are no mistakes made. Imagine a doctor saying: "You're going out but if we inflict pain you will stay longer." What would you choose? Peace or pain? What would you want your relatives to choose for you? In case you can't decide anymore? If the rest of my life will be nothing but pain, I don't think I'll want it.

Death is not peace, stop perpetuating that lie.

Re: I Lied When I Said We Did Everything We Could

#90

Post by [deleted] »

diminoten wrote: post #85
jdietrich wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Life is still life, and death is still infinitely worse. I assure you that this is untrue. There's a reason why people on the upper floors of the World Trade Center jumped from the windows, and it's not because they expected a soft landing. There are many, many things in this world worse than a peaceful death.

I assure you it is not untrue. People failing to realize a truth doesn't make it less true. Peaceful death is suicide, if chosen. Period.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN