Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE • Hacker News Board

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#171

Post by emmelaich » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

> Helping the federal government do its job and ...

I don't think invading privacy is part of the government's job.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#172

Post by omegaworks » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

lamarpye wrote: post #148

omegaworks wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the mental acrobatics that people go through to try to find an after-the-fact justification for targeted racist policy. The administration is run by white supremacists. They overtly and covertly signal their support for neo-nazis, and have campaigned on their overt bias against hispanic immigrants. Where is Occam's Razor in this case? Why is this simple explanation invalidated by a more complex one?

Why was this particular policy started under Obama? Interested to hear your mental acrobatics. Let me apply Occam's Razor, a lot of government employees are lazy, so going to the Motel 6 makes sense. Get the names, run some queries, arrest some people, hit my target number, the boss is happy. We have been doing this since 2015, why fix it, if it isn't broken.

Why do you assume Obama was or could have been any better?

The same people held power in 2015: Graham, McConnell, Sessions. The same media institutions toed the line. McCain got the whole nationalist jingoism ball rolling with Sarah Palin on his ticket.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#173

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

waffleguy wrote: post #133

romwell wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. I can come to any bank, and politely ask them to help me out a bit by giving me some money. That's not an illegal (or wrong) thing to do. Now if the bank does help me out by emptying out their customer's storage cells , someone's going into jail for that. See, it's fine to help out . It's not OK to do…

That makes no sense. You have no authority over the bank. The federal government can be considered a scary bully who will lie to send anyone to jail.

Your legal duty to your customer doesn't end wherein this duty is inconvenient.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#174

Post by lamarpye » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 3:50 AM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #172

lamarpye wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was this particular policy started under Obama? Interested to hear your mental acrobatics. Let me apply Occam's Razor, a lot of government employees are lazy, so going to the Motel 6 makes sense. Get the names, run some queries, arrest some people, hit my target number, the boss is happy. We have been doing this since 2015, why fix it, if it isn't broken.

Why do you assume Obama was or could have been any better? The same people held power in 2015: Graham, McConnell, Sessions. The same media institutions toed the line. McCain got the whole nationalist jingoism ball rolling with Sarah Palin on his ticket.

Because Obama is in charge of the Executive Branch, the President sets policy and Obama was President for 8 years.

I also don't have this cognitive dissonance where I blame the current occupant of an office for the policy his predecessor started.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#175

Post by nullc » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 4:05 AM UTC

paxy wrote: post #155

I can't believe the number of people who are defending Motel 6 here. Anyone who works for a mid-large sized company in certain departments will know that government agencies and police departments are always asking for stuff. It is not illegal for them to do so. The correct answer to 99% of these requests is "this is confidential/proprietary information" or "come back with a warrant". There is zero excuse to do anyth…

It is the norm in many industries to cooperate with any law enforcement request received. In some, doing so is the only way to avoid being named a defendant in your customer's unlawful actions (or being hit with fines for violating an endless list of regulations that are violated by everyone in your industry and effectively impossible to not violate).

So you may be seeing some amount of guilty consciences here...

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#176

Post by throwawaysea » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #39

Only as a data point for comparison, here in Italy (due to a Law originally established in the '70's for counter-terrorism purposes) when you check in (in a hotel, B&B and similar[0]) you need a valid document and you are registered (name, surname, date and place of birth, current address and type and number of document) and this info is sent (nowadays electronically) to the Police within 24 hours. [0] a recent exten…

This is also true in a few other European countries I’ve been to

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#177

Post by jakelazaroff » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 4:42 AM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #88

derekp7 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where the laws need to be tightened -- people tend to not know what their rights or obligations are, and have to rely on expensive professionals to advise them (and it can still go wrong). When a government agent makes a request, often it can come across as a demand, with the implication that your are required by law to comply (they can even lie to you to get you to comply). Now in the case of a large busines…

"people" This is a huge motel chain. They operate in a state which defines laws as to how you are allowed to handle your customer's information. Ignorance is not an excuse. I don't see how the individual citizen argument apples here and it's all hypotheticals anyway.

The article doesn't go into detail about how this information was obtained. Did they request it from the official company counsel? Or did they intimidate some night manager who doesn't know the law well enough to protest?

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#178

Post by romwell » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 4:42 AM UTC

waffleguy wrote: post #133

romwell wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. I can come to any bank, and politely ask them to help me out a bit by giving me some money. That's not an illegal (or wrong) thing to do. Now if the bank does help me out by emptying out their customer's storage cells , someone's going into jail for that. See, it's fine to help out . It's not OK to do…

That makes no sense. You have no authority over the bank. The federal government can be considered a scary bully who will lie to send anyone to jail.

>You have no authority over the bank.

And ICE doesn't have authority over Motel 6 without a warrant.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#179

Post by test6554 » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 4:42 AM UTC

I can see a day where every guest of every hotel in every country is photographed and submitted to the government for things like warrants and visa status. It could happen seamlessly at check in rather than randomly pulling records in bulk after the fact.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#180

Post by arcticbull » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 4:45 AM UTC

test6554 wrote: post #179

I can see a day where every guest of every hotel in every country is photographed and submitted to the government for things like warrants and visa status. It could happen seamlessly at check in rather than randomly pulling records in bulk after the fact.

Something similar happens in China already. Any place you stay as a visitor (whether a hotel or a guest house) your passport is scanned and submitted to the police. If you don't check in within 24 hours, they may come looking for you.