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Buy Yourself a Latte

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Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#281

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #27

Counterpoint: The debate is framed as "$5 a day is a waste--put it into your piggy bank every day and drink office sludge instead". I instead say that yes, the office coffee still tastes like fertilizer, but I still think $5 a day for a latte is waste because I can make some excellent coffee at my desk for about a dollar a day using an inexpensive French Press, a hand-grinder (or grinding the beans that morning at ho…

The amount of time people are willing to spend waiting in lines continuously amazes me.

And for food and drinks, no less.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#282

Post by jodrellblank »

hopler wrote: post #129
DoreenMichele wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that $5 a day adds up The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I sometimes bought myself a fucking coffee of some sort at Starbuck's back when I was homeless. I needed the caffeine to help treat health issues. It let me plug in for an hour and get some electricity for my tablet, pl…

You got a lot for your $5. At the other end of the spectrum are chronically bankrupt people maxed out on credit card debt who buy a takeout $6 giant candy coffee whenever they go anywhere and don't even bother to finish drinking it before they have to throw it away because they are walking into a restaurant. This story is based on true events.

Sounds like that person has fewer risks of losing all their savings in a freak accident, and lives with more luxuries. Is that not .. an understandable way to live?

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#283

Post by shostack »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #82
ineedasername wrote: post #46

If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…

It is an interesting phenomena, because it's a relatively expensive product for what it is, but it's also an experience. Even though my wife and I do quite well financially (and save plenty for ourselves, our kids college, etc), I noticed we were spending "too much" on espressos and lattes. Not too much for our financial situation, but too much for my comfort level at least. So, we bought a $600 espresso machine, whi…

I did a similar switch and made a spreadsheet to model it all out. I lost money in the first year, and ended up saving roughly $500/year every subsequent year.

And that was after buying a $400 grinder and $700 espresso machine and misc. accessories. And also with upping the frequency with which I drank coffee since I'm buying bags of beans now.

For those with expensive coffee habits, it is ABSOLUTELY possible to save a bunch of money annually, and drink coffee that is much better and more consistent than many decent cafes once you learn what you're doing, figure out what beans you like, and learn to dial in the grind.

I'm now tempted to get into home roasting to save even more since the green beans keep a really long time.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#284

Post by lostmsu »

opportune wrote: post #193
lostmsu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$5 coffee for 300 days is $1500/y, which, IMO, is not insignificant even compared to $50K

Personally I think if you have $50k/y discretionary spending it's not unreasonable to spend $10k-20k of that on things you enjoy. Personally I save more, because most of the things I enjoy are free and I want to take advantage of compound interest while I'm young, but that's a personal choice. But if there are things aside from investments that you do want to spend your money on while you have such a significant (com…

How about retiring 25% earlier?

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#285

Post by iliketosleep »

csomar wrote: post #261

Sure. How about saving up that $5 coffee until you die. Then you can enjoy your millions in your grave-yard. I'm close to turning 30 and one thing I learned: There are certain experiences you only enjoy when you are at a particular age. You can't go hiking when you are 75. You'll probably be sitting on a chair. You can't also go drinking and dancing in some cities around the world and coming back to your hotel room w…

This is what I've said for a long time - people complain that Starbucks is expensive, and I totally agree if it's takeaway. But if you go there, sit down and enjoy the coffee in a pleasant environment, it's actually great value (especially in the city)

On the broader point that you're making, balance is key. There are times when you're young that it's definitely necessary to let go and spend, because you know the experiences may not come again. But in terms of daily expenses, I know guys who earn over $10k/month and cry poor because their daily expenditures are insane. Unless you're very rich, daily expenditures do add up.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#286

Post by MRD85 »

neogodless wrote: post #49

With many people saving approximately nothing for retirement and hitting 65 with roughly $0 to show for it, even his modified example of having $300-400k after 40 years is... a pretty damn good argument for saving $100/month. Whether that $100 comes from lattes or apps/micro-purchases or junk food or brand labels or holding on to your car 2 more years before you replace it or cutting the cord on cable TV or more frug…

Does the US not have a compulsory savings scheme? In Australia, we have superannuation which employers must pay and it goes into a fund that is invested. My scheme gives me approximately 17% and after around 12 years of my working life, I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in my account. By the time I retire, it's likely to be worth around 1.5 million in today's dollars. I also invest some of my own money.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#287

Post by neogodless »

MRD85 wrote: post #286
neogodless wrote: post #49

With many people saving approximately nothing for retirement and hitting 65 with roughly $0 to show for it, even his modified example of having $300-400k after 40 years is... a pretty damn good argument for saving $100/month. Whether that $100 comes from lattes or apps/micro-purchases or junk food or brand labels or holding on to your car 2 more years before you replace it or cutting the cord on cable TV or more frug…

Does the US not have a compulsory savings scheme? In Australia, we have superannuation which employers must pay and it goes into a fund that is invested. My scheme gives me approximately 17% and after around 12 years of my working life, I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in my account. By the time I retire, it's likely to be worth around 1.5 million in today's dollars. I also invest some of my own money.

We do. It's called social security. Technically, it should be enough to pay the bare minimum of your needs upon retirement, if you're in a low cost-of-living area. It does not ensure a comfortable retirement, and we have enough problems in our government to erode our trust in getting the full payout from the system.

It's also "100%" paid out if you wait until 67, or 75% at 62. Also, I note you said "employers must pay"; we pay social security as a deduction from our paychecks in the form of a 6.2% tax. Employers also match that.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#288

Post by roenxi »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #269
DoreenMichele wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: Let’s consider five reasons why you should occasionally treat yourself to a cup of Joe. It's arguing against the people saying "Your daily coffee habit is costing you a million dollars!" It's saying that is nonsense. That isn't the same thing as issuing the opposite edict that you, yes you , need to rush out and drink coffee every. single. day. Defending your right to make such purchases as you see…

> It's arguing against the people saying "Your daily coffee habit is costing you a million dollars!" It's saying that is nonsense. Hopefully nobody is saying that. A $5 daily habit costs $20-30k per decade, after you factor in reasonably anticipated investment gains. No more no less. Viewpoints about what an ideal world would look like, or one's right to make such purchases, or whatever else, have zero impact on the…

The better way of looking at it is that a coffee will cost about $5/per (I dunno, I don't drink coffee) and the median male full time weekly earnings are somewhere around $900/wk in America.

So 5 coffees a week is ~2.7% of a full time wage. That is huge, anyone arguing otherwise isn't all over how percentages work. Only something like 10-15% of your average weekly wage needs to be saved to have a comfortable retirement. Reducing consumption is a double-whammy, you spend less on lifestyle so you need to save less to maintain that lifestyle. $5/day is a huge expense from that perspective.

I don't know how prevalent stupid decisions like a daily coffee are for poor people, but the costs are so high I expect not many of them do it. Having a stranger prepare your food and drink is a luxury for the wealthy.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#289

Post by strken »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #149
DoreenMichele wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that $5 a day adds up The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I sometimes bought myself a fucking coffee of some sort at Starbuck's back when I was homeless. I needed the caffeine to help treat health issues. It let me plug in for an hour and get some electricity for my tablet, pl…

There was an illustrative article on this topic a few years ago [1]: "It’s not like the sacrifice will result in improved circumstances; the thing holding me back isn’t that I blow five bucks at Wendy’s. It’s that now that I have proven that I am a Poor Person that is all that I am or ever will be. It is not worth it to me to live a bleak life devoid of small pleasures so that one day I can make a single large purcha…

Blame and justice-seeking are just two levers to fix different kinds of poverty. They're not even the only levers.

If someone spends all their money on rent because powerful interests are blocking new property development or because they're forced into rooming houses by a lack of rental history, then seeing them as a victim might be useful. If someone spends all their money on iphones and playstations and dinners and lattes and will stop doing it if they get negative peer feedback, then blaming them might be useful. If someone spends all their money on building a new house after a fire, then maybe neither is as helpful as integrating opt-out disaster insurance into land tax.

Taking a hard line against any particular lever is almost always going to make you wrong some of the time, which means that some people are going to stay poor when they don't have to, which sucks for them.

Re: Buy Yourself a Latte

#290

Post by puranjay »

spenczar5 wrote: post #172
puranjay wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not do both? Save $1000 in coffee and another $2000 in car purchases. It's not like having an expensive cup of coffee has been an intrinsic part of human life forever. It's not even a 50 year old phenomenon. There are certain things you should treat yourself on, but a cup of coffee is too insignificant a hill to die on. Especially since I'm not sure how many people buy lattes everyday because they truly love latt…

You are getting caught in the specific, and losing perspective on the argument. It's not that coffee is specifically valuable. It's that large fixed costs are more important than small, frequent discretionary spending.

The point applies to expenses other than coffee. You don't need most of the things you buy.

America as such buys too much stuff. The first time I went to America, I was shocked to see how "full" every house was. Just packed to the brim with odd knick knacks that no one uses. The kitchen gadget industry is the perfect example.

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