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Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

nytimes.com

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Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#481

Post by chii »

RobLach wrote: post #480
CM30 wrote: post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

What is life if getting rid of passion is sensible? It's a better goal to create systems where passions can flourish.

passion isn't always productive to society.

Some passion is, but i would argue most passion isn't. That's just simple economics, and i dont think humanity can get away from that - at least, not until we reach post-scarcity.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#482

Post by viraptor »

watwut wrote: post #465
rurp wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a common strategy but, as far as I can tell, a completely useless one. The US govt has been spending resources for years pushing messages that people should just not do drugs, or that by doing drugs they are funding terrorists, destroying families, etc. I haven't seen any evidence that such campaigns work, and given drug use rates across time and countries I'm pretty skeptical that they do.

People do less drugs then they did in the past. Especially young people.

Do they? There are many sources disputing whether DARE had any positive effect, and this specifically https://www.dualdiagnosis.org/drug-addiction/dare-program-wo... also shows growing use. (Then again, it depends what's "now" and "past")

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#484

Post by iamaelephant »

systemBuilder wrote: post #306
derefr wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the only practical solution is for people to stop taking on terrible jobs because of some sense of 'passion' So the “practical” solution is to change human nature? That doesn’t sound right. It’d be like saying that the practical solution to human trafficking is for people to stop visiting prostitutes; or that the solution to gangs’ drug income is for people to stop buying drugs. In all these cases, you can quash su…

"passion-based career choices" are 80% of the reason that women make less than men in most fields. They have a reputation as being there as a passion, not as a mercenary, and with less aggressiveness, are more likely to stay at a lower salary level if passed over for promotions, too risk-averse to leave for somewhere new. Also they can follow their passion because many see their career as a sidelight until they marry…

Yeah you're going to need to provide a source for this incredibly sexist theory.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#485

Post by jquery »

Retra wrote: post #472
jquery wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is going to pick up garbage in a basic income society and why? Don’t be surprised if you have to pay these people radically more than they are currently paid. In which case COL goes up significantly and the basic income doesn’t go as far and we are back to square one.

"Millionaires don't exist, because who would ever want more money?"

Are you suggesting garbage men will be millionaires? When we're talking about spending trillions and fundamentally changing the relationship between citizens, their government, and work, platitudes convince nobody but the choir.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#486

Post by grigjd3 »

sizzle wrote: post #191
CM30 wrote: post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

Will the influx of bootcamp grads cause the same effect on the supply and demand of developers?

I have my doubts. Maybe a bootcamp can prep someone to make apps (though I know very little about mobile app development), but at least in my job, I need a pretty in-depth understanding of how technology works. It's not enough to have used Spark a few times but I really need to know what it's good at and what it lacks and I need this understanding across all my tools. I need to know at least the basics of the implementation and to have that understanding across all my tools, I have to have a pretty strong theoretical grounding that I just don't see the bootcamps providing. Like maybe a few really bright people figure that out while in bootcamp, but I suspect most don't.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#487

Post by spc476 »

rubicon33 wrote: post #294

It's incredible reading through the comments on this post and nobody seems to see the game industry for what it is: the canary in the coal mine. Programming within the game industry is sliding rapidly toward blue collar, and you'd be a fool to assume the problem is contained. The problem for programmers is simple - Supply and Demand. Thanks to a massive publicity push from big tech, the public is being sold - hook li…

While that may be true, I can't but think of the scribes. Mass literacy has destroyed the scribe occupation (think of their children!) but overall it has been a benefit to mankind. I'm thinking the same with computers and programming. Computers and programming have so transformed the world (much like literacy and numeracy) that I have to think the same should be true of computeracy (computer literacy).

And just like there are people who have an affinity for literacy (we call them "writers") and numeracy ("mathematicians" or "accountants" depending upon the math work), I think we're still working through what it means to be computerate.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#488

Post by spc476 »

tluyben2 wrote: post #2

Not anymore no. It used to be when I did it in the 80s and 90s. It grew up and it is hell now (if I may believe my friends in the industry). Edit; come to think about it: I made games a few years ago; educational games for government, utilities, zoos and education for money, so a job and that was still fun and really quite a dream job imho. But not big open world fps ofcourse :) Nice 2d games which is like the most a…

In the early 80s, you could be a 15 year old and make a ton of money making a computer game. This got harder as time went on and computers got more complicated (and expectations rose).

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#489

Post by grigjd3 »

NaNtales wrote: post #130
bubblewrap wrote: post #46

They are not being exploited. They are free to take on another job. Especially coders could certainly find jobs in other industries. And "Fortnite" is not the games industry. There are a variety of ways to make a living making games.

Of course you can stop being exploited as a game developer by leaving the games industry---but why should people be forced to change their career in order to avoid exploitation?

Don't know why someone is entitled to a particular career. Change can be hard but I certainly wasn't ever promised an easy life.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#490

Post by rubicon33 »

spc476 wrote: post #487
rubicon33 wrote: post #294

It's incredible reading through the comments on this post and nobody seems to see the game industry for what it is: the canary in the coal mine. Programming within the game industry is sliding rapidly toward blue collar, and you'd be a fool to assume the problem is contained. The problem for programmers is simple - Supply and Demand. Thanks to a massive publicity push from big tech, the public is being sold - hook li…

While that may be true, I can't but think of the scribes. Mass literacy has destroyed the scribe occupation (think of their children!) but overall it has been a benefit to mankind. I'm thinking the same with computers and programming. Computers and programming have so transformed the world (much like literacy and numeracy) that I have to think the same should be true of computeracy (computer literacy). And just like…

Seems to me like you've kinda cherry picked scribes. Among other reasons why that doesn't really apply here, could be pointed out that scribes as a profession evaporated HUNDREDS (thousands?) of years ago, so I hardly see the direct analogy to modern life. There are plenty of examples that are more relevant.

Take metal working. Or, coal mining. Post-industrial revolution during the "boom" of the early 1900s, metal working was seen as the end-all of careers. Everyone needed to "learn to work metal!". In fact, it was pushed so much as the best career, that it became integrated into the educational system (shop). It was believed that everyone needed to learn to work with metal.

What has that done for the industry? Honestly, can you look at the metal working industry, or the coal industry, and tell me that they (or us?) are better off because of it being integrated into our educational system. We could probably argue all day about whether or not that was a smart move for mankind, but one thing is for sure - all those people ended up with depressed wages as two effects took hold - over supply of workers locally, and cheap labor abroad.

Similarly, I think we can debate all day about whether or not everyone knowing how to code is going to be a good thing. I don't think I have the same perspective as you on that, but neither of us can really make a definitive statement of fact. We can probably both agree however, that software faces the same destiny as other professions which went through the very same life cycle.

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