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Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

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Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#131

Post by fucking_tragedy »

shawnz wrote: post #2

> "Motel 6's actions tore families apart and violated the privacy rights of tens of thousands of Washingtonians," What? I'm pretty sure ICE's actions were what tore those families apart. Why aren't they being punished for illegally requesting the data without a warrant? Maybe the Motel 6 employees who wrongfully gave the data felt pressured, given that ICE is a government agency just like the DOJ?

> What? I'm pretty sure ICE's actions were what tore those families apart. Why aren't they being punished for illegally requesting the data without a warrant?

Motel 6 violated Washington law by giving information away without a warrant. ICE can ask nicely for data from anyone, but you only have to comply if they have a warrant or subpoena.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#132

Post by cromwellian »

ProAm wrote: post #100
code_duck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it your duty to protect the privacy of your data and your customers regardless of who is requesting data? I thought companies like Twitter and Google routinely rebuffed requests for information from government agencies and opposed restrictive rules, e.g. in China, and are praised for it. The concept of resisting government requests for information is well established. If the police called and asked for my custo…

> I thought companies like Twitter and Google routinely rebuffed requests for information from government agencies and opposed restrictive rules They say this but look at AT&T and room 641A and the NSA.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Guilt by association? AT&T is a completely different kind of company than SV tech companies.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#133

Post by waffleguy »

romwell wrote: post #129
nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

>When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. I can come to any bank, and politely ask them to help me out a bit by giving me some money. That's not an illegal (or wrong) thing to do. Now if the bank does help me out by emptying out their customer's storage cells , someone's going into jail for that. See, it's fine to help out . It's not OK to do…

That makes no sense. You have no authority over the bank. The federal government can be considered a scary bully who will lie to send anyone to jail.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#134

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

anigbrowl wrote: post #130
maccio92 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the damn name. Immigration enforcement. We have a legal immigration process in this country, many try to come here illegally. Without a border, you have no country.

You still have a border, just like the 50 US states have internal borders with each other. Why haven't they ceased to exist as discrete entities? Permeable borders abound in nature. Trying to obstruct the natural behavior of migration is as foolish as trying to halt the tides and arguably causes worse economic distortions than it solves.

Because we're the United States. We're not the United Countries.

The "natural flow of migration"?

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#135

Post by nl »

YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #120
prolepunk wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, could you please directly link to the source. Second even if this number is accurate, it is misleading and I will attempt to put it in perspective. People are coming to us border to claim asylum. They are unable to do that because border agents are understaffed (it's been like that since 2015 during Obama administration) and can only accept so many applications. In the meantime they have to live in appa…

here you go https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

That says "In FY18, a total of 396,579 individuals were apprehended between ports of entry on our Southwest Border."

It's on course to be higher this year, but well under 1 million.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#137

Post by nl »

YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #122
Hello71 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except there's no need to make shit up, the CBP conveniently also publishes statistics regarding the total number of apprehensions every year, broken down by month. unlike you, who presumably got the information from Trump on Twitter, I will post my source: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/201... the total number of apprehensions every year for the past 12 fiscal years has been less than 1 mil…

that's exactly what I said. Approx 70k per month comes out to approx 840k per year. THATS ONLY THE ONES WHO GOT ARRESTED. You can assume less than half got away without being arrested and you get a number that passes a million.

In no month has 70k been apprehended. The maximum was 66450 (so you are taking the max, rounding it up an projecting using that..)

Also the person you are replying to pointed out that this included people apprehended more than once.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#139

Post by misterprime »

js2 wrote: post #68
nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

There's a Washington state consumer protection law. Some Motel 6 locations in the state broke that law by handing over data to Federal officials without a warrant. The Federal officials broke no law in asking for the data without a warrant. It was the hotels which broke the law. Maybe you could make an entrapment argument against the Federal officials. IANAL, so I don't know how that works. (I guess it's not entrapme…

>And btw, since when has the law ever been enforced fairly, really?

We gotta keep trying our best, even though we're never gonna get it 100% right.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#140

Post by tdhoot »

Miner49er wrote: post #14
scarejunba wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it feels like it should be illegal. If a cop or a cop-simulacrum walks up to me and says "You're going to jail unless you give me this" I'm probably going to give them that. I don't want to go to jail and I know they'll cook something up about resisting arrest if I don't play along.

If the state of Washington made it illegal it couldn't effect ICE though could it, since they're a part of the federal government?

No, it couldn't affect ICE since the federal government has sovereign immunity and all federal officials enjoy qualified immunity in the course of conducting federal business.
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