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Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

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Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#121

Post by scarface74 »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help.

It depends on whether you are in a demographic that believes law enforcement is just or corrupt.

I’ve told my sons if they ever get questioned by the police to not say a word until I get there. Even if they don’t have anything to hide.

I’ve told them how to react when they get stopped by the police and always keep their emotions under control. I’ve told them never to expect fair treatment. All of my paranoia is backed by statistics.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#122

Post by YeahSureWhyNot »

Hello71 wrote: post #117
YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70k arrested for illegal border crossing in march only. I would say it's definitely more than a million if you count the ones who didn't get arrested

except there's no need to make shit up, the CBP conveniently also publishes statistics regarding the total number of apprehensions every year, broken down by month. unlike you, who presumably got the information from Trump on Twitter, I will post my source: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/201... the total number of apprehensions every year for the past 12 fiscal years has been less than 1 mil…

that's exactly what I said. Approx 70k per month comes out to approx 840k per year. THATS ONLY THE ONES WHO GOT ARRESTED. You can assume less than half got away without being arrested and you get a number that passes a million.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#123

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

I don’t want to live in that world.

The natural result of this is then everyones rights would constantly be violated. Police would ask and every company would roll over and give out any info that is requested. And when we talk about personal information getting out, the damage is sort of done once it happens. And your only recourse is to then sue the government or get your state AG to possibly do it for you?

If you want to operate a business that takes personal information, it is your responsibility to protect it. Nobody is forcing anyone to start a business but there are inherent risks.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#124

Post by lamarpye »

drewrv wrote: post #92
maccio92 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is done because an overwhelming majority of those entering the country illegal are hispanic. There isn't much more to it than that. It's not racism just because they happen to be the race doing it. If it were any other race it would be treated the exact same way.

If I could convince you that the largest block of visa overstays are from Canada, and that a good chunk of them are from European countries, would you reconsider whether targeting Hispanic people is racist? https://www.statista.com/chart/9550/foreign-citizens-who-ove...

Are most of these Canadian visa holed up in the various Motel 6s in the Washington area? I imagine the ICE fished in this area, because it was a good spot to catch fish. In general, I don't think much of the government, but I am sure they have metrics. The local ICE satrap isn't going to keep sending people to Motel 6 if they aren't catching any fish.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#125

Post by YeahSureWhyNot »

prolepunk wrote: post #115
YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70k arrested for illegal border crossing in march only. I would say it's definitely more than a million if you count the ones who didn't get arrested

First of all, could you please directly link to the source. Second even if this number is accurate, it is misleading and I will attempt to put it in perspective. People are coming to us border to claim asylum. They are unable to do that because border agents are understaffed (it's been like that since 2015 during Obama administration) and can only accept so many applications. In the meantime they have to live in appa…

just because the conditions are appalling doesn't make doing illegal things okay. you don't see me break into my rich neighbors property and move into his garden cottage just because my house is in appalling condition.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#126

Post by nraynaud »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #20
bradlys wrote: post #15

Why would ICE run "latino-sounding" names through and not just all names through whatever ICE database they're cross-referencing? Did they get a 10,000 page print out instead of a spreadsheet file? (why not Scan + OCR + cross reference with database - would be way faster) Just seems like ICE employees are only targeting latinos... intentionally. And that's the most bothering part of this to me. We're cool with Swedes…

Well anyone who has dealt with ICE, Border Patrol this does not even remotely surprise me. I had a French-American friend who went to France without his daughter's American passport. When he returned back the Agent did not even ask to see the little girls passport. Had this guy been Latino he would be called a child smuggler.

Strange stuff happens when exiting France when you're not white too. I was in line at the exit control, and the black family ahead of me had issues because they couldn't provide the passport they entered the country with (they came for renewal of their French passport, the Prefecture had it, they were exiting on their Canadian passport). I was completely baffled at the policeman harassing freaking Canadian citizens exiting the country.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#127

Post by tptacek »

jaclaz wrote: post #39

Only as a data point for comparison, here in Italy (due to a Law originally established in the '70's for counter-terrorism purposes) when you check in (in a hotel, B&B and similar[0]) you need a valid document and you are registered (name, surname, date and place of birth, current address and type and number of document) and this info is sent (nowadays electronically) to the Police within 24 hours. [0] a recent exten…

Yeah, we're ostensibly not big on that kind of surveillance here.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#128

Post by rdiddly »

gamblor956 wrote: post #91
rdiddly wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you share your source maybe I'll be as sure as you are.

Oasisbob shared the civil complaint. It states quite clearly that there was no coercion on ICE's part...moreover that it was Motel 6 that actually directed its employees to just turn over the information. On a related note...the owner of the Motel 6 chain is a die-hard supporter of President Trump and has very conservative views of immigration, which supports the theory that Motel 6 was in the wrong here and ICE was…

Aha, missed that, thanks.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#129

Post by romwell »

nostromo wrote: post #24

This is... strange. When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help. In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government. (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.) If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally I do…

>When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it's pretty normal for people to provide that help.

I can come to any bank, and politely ask them to help me out a bit by giving me some money. That's not an illegal (or wrong) thing to do.

Now if the bank does help me out by emptying out their customer's storage cells, someone's going into jail for that.

See, it's fine to help out. It's not OK to do so at someone else's expense. In this case, Motel 6 gave away something that's not theirs to give away, according to the law (namely: their customers' data).

Motel 6 did not break the law by helping out the feds. It broke the law by harming their customers (sharing their customer's data).

In the end, it's normal to ask for help. It's also pretty normal to politely decline to provide it.

Title nitpick: Motel 6 illegally gave away this information. They broke the state law, were sued for that, and lost $12M (and made further commitments on top of that). Why NPR chose to soften it to "improperly" is beyond me; the attorney general quoted in the article uses "illegally" in the same sentence.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#130

Post by anigbrowl »

maccio92 wrote: post #79
omegaworks wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enumerate those other purposes? Is one of them to privilege a white majority? Perhaps there's a reason so many call to abolish the institution.

It's in the damn name. Immigration enforcement. We have a legal immigration process in this country, many try to come here illegally. Without a border, you have no country.

You still have a border, just like the 50 US states have internal borders with each other. Why haven't they ceased to exist as discrete entities?

Permeable borders abound in nature. Trying to obstruct the natural behavior of migration is as foolish as trying to halt the tides and arguably causes worse economic distortions than it solves.

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