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Groups of Homeless People

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Re: Groups of Homeless People

#61

Post by glangdale »

treis wrote: post #58
glangdale wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that characterizing people who are mentally ill as "ruiners" is a particularly helpful taxonomy whether you're looking to understand homelessness or help fix it. I think it just serves as a tough-talking catchall category for "homeless I don't like" here (like we'll cut the 'bad ones' out of the herd and then be nice to everyone else). I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of labelling people as 'rui…

>I'm not convinced that characterizing people who are mentally ill as "ruiners" They're not. They fall into: >4. People who can’t survive the modern world without assistance

I am aware that he says that people can be in multiple categories. However, many of the things he describes in the ruiner category are way more typical of mental illness, which to me is deeply problematic. The focus appears to be on how bad the people in category 5 are. It's attaching a shitty, judgemental label to very sick people at the very bottom rung of society.

Yes, there are scammers, predators and just plain assholes in the homeless world (and these people should be in a much smaller and better thought out 'ruiner' category). However, the difference between someone who "needs a bit of help to get through the day" and "someone who is painting the walls of their room in poo" is largely a matter of degree (i.e. one requires massive quantities more help to stabilze).

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#62

Post by Proven »

pjc50 wrote: post #50
ende wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re missing the point. The people that OP is referring to refuse to use all the public facilities offered, they don’t want to sleep indoors, they don’t want to use trash cans, they don’t want to piss in mobile bathrooms or take showers, they don’t want to be corralled into designated hang out spots. They want to go wherever they want to, camp out wherever they want to, they want to collect whatever garbage…

So, libertarians, but without the money? (How do these people get into this state? Is this just a concentration phenomenon, where people who think that all move to the same place?)

[dead]

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#63

Post by ende »

pjc50 wrote: post #50
ende wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re missing the point. The people that OP is referring to refuse to use all the public facilities offered, they don’t want to sleep indoors, they don’t want to use trash cans, they don’t want to piss in mobile bathrooms or take showers, they don’t want to be corralled into designated hang out spots. They want to go wherever they want to, camp out wherever they want to, they want to collect whatever garbage…

So, libertarians, but without the money? (How do these people get into this state? Is this just a concentration phenomenon, where people who think that all move to the same place?)

As a “recovering libertarian”, this is accusation is so apt. The ideology fits the behavior being described very closely.

Which is why it is so perplexing that Bay Area progressives strive so hard to protext libertarians.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#64

Post by ende »

educationdata wrote: post #44
ende wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re missing the point. The people that OP is referring to refuse to use all the public facilities offered, they don’t want to sleep indoors, they don’t want to use trash cans, they don’t want to piss in mobile bathrooms or take showers, they don’t want to be corralled into designated hang out spots. They want to go wherever they want to, camp out wherever they want to, they want to collect whatever garbage…

Interesting. How do those people think of jail time? Will arresting scare them away or change their behavior?

Probably not. They just go to wherever they are least bothered. Hence the Bay Area and its laxness.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#65

Post by webninja »

watwut wrote: post #34
standardUser wrote: post #23

As a many-decades resident of Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and a as someone who has in the past been deeply involved in the street/drug scene and been associated with and friends with many dozens of people who have lived on the streets, I think this bizarre attempt at categorization missed the most visible and important group of people on the streets... People who choose to live on the streets. Go talk to people. As…

Why is the amount of these growing?

Because home and hotel rates keep rising relative to minimum wage.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#66

Post by ende »

DanBC wrote: post #40
ende wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, I don't think many of the mentally ill need to be forced into an institution under the old model, but we really do need a mechanism to deal with ill people resistant to treatment. This is the mission statement right here. Very well said. There are quite a few articles/blogs/etc out there from psychiatric professionals who were practicing before deinstitutionalization, many of whom were champions of the r…

> Maybe it’s time to revisit the concept of mental institutions, albeit a more humane model. There isn't a more humane model. If you're forcing people into an institution you're also going to be forcign them to take medication and if you're not very careful there's a bunch of other restrictive practice and other bad stuff that happens. The main ones would be use of rapid tranquilisation, use of prone restraint and su…

All true, but I guess I mean a ‘better’ model not at the expense of the perfect model.

Can you tell me more about assertive outreach teams?

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