Groups of Homeless People • Hacker News Board

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#21

Post by glangdale » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:32 AM UTC

The bit on 'ruiners' is overly judgemental, lumping people who are clearly upset and mentally ill in with predators. Yes, there are sociopaths and predators in homeless shelters, but a lot of the behaviors being picked out in group 5 are just signs of mental illness and distress - just a severe point on the continuum of group 4.

Also, a category that's neglected is people who could be served by existing shelter or halfway house infrastructure but choose to avoid it: I know of people who are 'homeless by choice' as a result of facilities being either (a) too scary/chaotic or (b) too moralizing (e.g. 'dry').

There's also a good deal of youth homelessness which falls into many of these categories without cleanly matching any one of them. Sometimes kids leave households because they are 'wild', but frequently because the households are dysfunctional and couch-surfing or sleeping on the streets is perceived to be no more dangerous than being at home (or being shunted into foster care).

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#22

Post by mav3rick » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:43 AM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #19

I experienced homelessness for a while in my 20's (back in the 90's, for reference). And yes, there were a group of people who were homeless and did not want to change. They would complain to everyone who could give them cash or assistance about how horrible their life was, and how they were victims of circumstance, but to other homeless people they were quite honest about their intentions to stay on the streets. I n…

Do you have any ideas as to why they prefer to stay on the streets ?

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#23

Post by standardUser » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

As a many-decades resident of Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and a as someone who has in the past been deeply involved in the street/drug scene and been associated with and friends with many dozens of people who have lived on the streets, I think this bizarre attempt at categorization missed the most visible and important group of people on the streets...

People who choose to live on the streets. Go talk to people. Ask where they're from. The people you're most likely to encounter (the ones being visible, doing drugs visibly, camping visibly) are travelers of sorts. Adventurers even. Sure, many are drug addicts or have mental health issues. But so do millions of people with jobs and homes. Unlike those people, these people choose to eschew social norms wholesale and live a nomadic lifestyle.

You see much less of this outside of the temperate climate of the West Coast. But here, it's a growing problem. They have plenty of food and can earn above minimum wage by spare-changing and are given adequate healthcare. And they shit and piss on our streets, block sidewalks, litter profusely and otherwise do whatever they feel like.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#24

Post by ericmcer » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #21

The bit on 'ruiners' is overly judgemental, lumping people who are clearly upset and mentally ill in with predators. Yes, there are sociopaths and predators in homeless shelters, but a lot of the behaviors being picked out in group 5 are just signs of mental illness and distress - just a severe point on the continuum of group 4. Also, a category that's neglected is people who could be served by existing shelter or ha…

I agree with the 'ruiners' label though, especially living in SF, the vast majority of homeless are minding their own business and trying to get by. If you pass by 100 in your day and just one happens to be openly shitting in front of you, you might walk away saying, 'the homeless are really ruining the city', in spite of 99% of your encounters being neutral.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#25

Post by c22 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

arkades wrote: post #4

_ikuh wrote: post #2

I was pretty with it until 4 and 5. The premise that certain groups of people without housing "can't survive without the kind of assistance that money can't buy" is condescending and elitist at best.

There’s a guy on my psych floor right now that, at his best, is too psychotic and paranoid to hold a job for more than a few days. At his worst - where he usually is, because his paranoia includes medications, and he believes he’s completely healthy - he’s only loosely tethered to reality. It’s a good day if he’s clothed even vaguely appropriate to the season, and manages to eat actual food. It’s not uncommon for him…

This is absolutely blowing my mind right now because 20 years ago during a significant psychotic episode I also ate soap on the advice of a glowing angelic figure who also commanded me to store samples of my own semen in a freezer in my basement. I've long since accepted those experiences as crazy edge cases in a complex brain and tied every supernatural interpretation I had to actual rational events, and I'm sure this is just an insane coincidence, but damn if it doesn't make me pause for a second. I wonder if there's some strange cultural artifact I've forgotten that both I and this fellow were exposed to that would explain this synchronicity.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#26

Post by caconym_ » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:59 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #23

As a many-decades resident of Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and a as someone who has in the past been deeply involved in the street/drug scene and been associated with and friends with many dozens of people who have lived on the streets, I think this bizarre attempt at categorization missed the most visible and important group of people on the streets... People who choose to live on the streets. Go talk to people. As…

Do these people not fall under "the ruiners"?

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#27

Post by PopeDotNinja » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

umeshunni wrote: post #15

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #13

I was a #2. Ask me anything!

How did you end up in that situation and how did you get out of it? Were there friends or family that could help out and if so, why didn't they?

This was in 2009. At the end of 2008 when startup financing dried up, I ended up with pretty much no income. I was recruiting on an hourly basis, and I couldn't find a new contract. I had about $50K saved up to pay taxes and an S.F. studio apartment, and I decided to live off that money & try starting a startup. A year later I had no money and no apartment.

I could have stayed with my parents in the burbs of L.A., but I figured I would have gotten stuck in an area where there even less opportunity. I ended up floor surfing at a cheap place here in San Francisco, the Harcourt Hotel at 1105 Larkin St. Basically I made newer friends faster that my new the friends didn't want me crashing with them anymore.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#28

Post by username223 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #11

dbcurtis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there are a huge number of people that are on the edge w.r.t. mental health. Not quite capable of handling activities of daily living and/or their own finances. Or not 100% of the time, and that fraction of the time that they can't, their money evaporates, and/or relationships evaporate. The crisis in mental health care in the US is shameful. It is true that in the bad-old-days people were over institutionalized.…

Yeah man it’s serious. Someone asked me to help an individual recently and I’m struggling to figure out how to help. He is a programmer who suffers from schizophrenia. His hallucinations got out of control until he lost his job, his life, and his kids. Social workers pretty much forced the one person in his life who cares for him (his wife) to have him removed by the police. Now he hates her. Then he proceeded to mis…

That's terrible, and I don't think there are any easy answers. Just be there if he reaches out, and help in small ways when you can.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#29

Post by PopeDotNinja » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

senectus1 wrote: post #18

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #13

I was a #2. Ask me anything!

so assuming you had no savings, no open line of credit and no family to lean on... how did you get out from that? Also did you have any dependencies? What were your leanings from the experience?

After a couple months of being homeless, an old client of mine called up and asked if I could help with some work. I said yes, but also said that I wasn't in a position to do work now and wait for an invoice to get paid. They have me a $5000 advance. $1000 went to bring the balance of my overdrawn checking account up to zero. $2500 went to paying rent for a couple months at a relatively cheap hotel. About $1000 went to expenses related to filling the job, and I scraped together a couple months of food on yhe last $500.

It all worked out. My business took off from there with a lot of luck, hard work, producing results, and getting referrals. I sold that business a couple years later, and used that money to learn how to play developer for moniez :)

I'm not sure what you mean by dependencies, but I had no dependents/kids to care for & I was not dependent on drugs. I did drink a little more than I should at the time, but it wasn't ever too bad.

The number one lesson I learned is to not run out of cash. Life is 100x easier when you have a little money. If you don't believe me, try to see how much you can buy with $20 vs getting someone to give you $20 :)

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#30

Post by codeafin » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 5:15 AM UTC

mav3rick wrote: post #22

marcus_holmes wrote: post #19

I experienced homelessness for a while in my 20's (back in the 90's, for reference). And yes, there were a group of people who were homeless and did not want to change. They would complain to everyone who could give them cash or assistance about how horrible their life was, and how they were victims of circumstance, but to other homeless people they were quite honest about their intentions to stay on the streets. I n…

Do you have any ideas as to why they prefer to stay on the streets ?

It's similar to someone complaining about their job or relationship, but refusing to do anything about it.

Life can be comfortable if you keep thinking to yourself that you are a helpless victim. You become your own biggest hurdle at that point but it's a consistent predictable life people sometimes subconsciously fall into.

It's also still subjective to say not being homeless is all good. Some may even prefer that "free" lifestyle of not having to have responsibilities.