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Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

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Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#51

Post by [deleted] »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #20
bradlys wrote: post #15

Why would ICE run "latino-sounding" names through and not just all names through whatever ICE database they're cross-referencing? Did they get a 10,000 page print out instead of a spreadsheet file? (why not Scan + OCR + cross reference with database - would be way faster) Just seems like ICE employees are only targeting latinos... intentionally. And that's the most bothering part of this to me. We're cool with Swedes…

Well anyone who has dealt with ICE, Border Patrol this does not even remotely surprise me. I had a French-American friend who went to France without his daughter's American passport. When he returned back the Agent did not even ask to see the little girls passport. Had this guy been Latino he would be called a child smuggler.

[deleted]

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#52

Post by matt4077 »

lixtra wrote: post #40
matt4077 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are fined for improperly handing over data. It seems we have already set that standard in law.

So who from the federal government is charged for their part of the crime?

Sorry, I only now got OP‘s intention.

I believe it’s somewhat defensible to task only one side here with protecting the data. They have that data all the time, and it’s therefore more practical for them to explore the legality of such requests. They are also the party entrusted with that data by the customer, and therefore have a fiduciary duty. It also aligns with the idea of those profiting from data to accept liability for its protection.

There’s probably also a federal/state law angle here that I’m unqualified to opine on.

Also: this is civil law, and therefore nobody was or will be charged (just a pet peeve).

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#53

Post by [deleted] »

shawnz wrote: post #35
gamblor956 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

How does a government agent ask you to break the law nicely ? ICE could ask me anything as nicely as they want and I'd still feel compelled. They are in an immense position of power over Motel 6 here.

[deleted]

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#54

Post by rdiddly »

gamblor956 wrote: post #28
bredren wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the trouble is ICE's "requests" are not always purported as requests. See recent attempt in New York by ICE agent that he had a legally enforceable warrant and that his goal of detaining a vehicle occupant was not simply a request. [1] The ICE officer in this case even quotes a statute that implied the driver might face penalties for not complying with the officer's demands. Given this behavior, I wonder what…

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

When you share your source maybe I'll be as sure as you are.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#55

Post by gamblor956 »

Frondo wrote: post #46
gamblor956 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

Do we know how ICE asked for these records? Because, from everything else I've ever seen about law enforcement making such requests, there's nothing nice about it, and there's everything coercive about it. And it's a scary kind of coercion because they do have the force of the state backing them up, in a way that plays on our built-in desire to please authority, built-in desire to not rock the boat, and built-in fear…

Let's get this straight guys:

If ICE had used any coecion at all to get the guest lists, Motel 6 wouldn't be in trouble with the state of Washington. Motel 6 is in trouble because they violated the law voluntarily.

ICE deals with businesses differently than they deal with individuals. You're all imagining scenarios which did not happen.

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#57

Post by [deleted] »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #34
dragonwriter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could it be considered entrapment if Motel 6 was pressured into giving ICE the information? No, because ICE agents are not agents of the State of Washington, and the prosecution was by the State for violations of State law. ICE agents are, in terms of entrapment, no different than ISIS agents would be in this case. EDIT: Also no, because entrapment is a criminal defense, and this was a civil consumer protection cas…

"ICE agents are, in terms of entrapment, no different than ISIS agents would be in this case." ICE agents have some degree of lawful authority legally vested in them at some level of American governance, so it stands to reason that individuals can make the claim they felt 'required by some law' to do as that agency apparently behoved of them. Especially if ICE were making statements along the lines of 'you're legally…

[deleted]

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#58

Post by oasisbob »

gamblor956 wrote: post #28
bredren wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the trouble is ICE's "requests" are not always purported as requests. See recent attempt in New York by ICE agent that he had a legally enforceable warrant and that his goal of detaining a vehicle occupant was not simply a request. [1] The ICE officer in this case even quotes a statute that implied the driver might face penalties for not complying with the officer's demands. Given this behavior, I wonder what…

If ICE had compelled Motel 6 to hand over the lists, that would be a very different thing and we would be having a very different conversation. But that's not what happened, and let's not pretend like that is what happened. ICE asked nicely, expecting to be turned down by Motel 6 like most other hotel chains did. But Motel 6 went along with the request without any sort of coercion and in fact in violation of local co…

This is all from the original complaint:

https://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/Ano...

https://www.atg.wa.gov/motel-6-settlement-claim-information

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#59

Post by YeahSureWhyNot »

wan23 wrote: post #37
basic6 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because it's not 1 million Swedes entering the country illegally every year.

To be fair, it's not 1 million of anyone entering the country illegally every year.

70k arrested for illegal border crossing in march only. I would say it's definitely more than a million if you count the ones who didn't get arrested

Re: Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE

#60

Post by paulddraper »

bradlys wrote: post #15

Why would ICE run "latino-sounding" names through and not just all names through whatever ICE database they're cross-referencing? Did they get a 10,000 page print out instead of a spreadsheet file? (why not Scan + OCR + cross reference with database - would be way faster) Just seems like ICE employees are only targeting latinos... intentionally. And that's the most bothering part of this to me. We're cool with Swedes…

> We're cool with Swedes overstaying their welcome...

I think it has less to do with "being cool with Swedes", and more to do with the fact that illegal immigrants are -- statistically speaking -- overwhelming Hispanic, and anyone identifying illegals will have better results among Hispanics.

I don't think anyone is more cool with a Swede conducting a terrorist attack than an Arab. Rather, any tenancy to profile Arabs as terrorists comes from the fact that most terrorists are Arabic.

---

This is not to justify the practice of racial profiling. I merely assert that the motivations for racial profiling stems more from actual statistics and cost-benefit analysis than intrinsic irrational racism as I think you suggest.

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