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Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

nytimes.com

111–120 of 505 posts

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#111
post #51
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked in the industry they believe it's necessary. I got yoked into a mandated long weekend and was laughed out of the room when I demanded a retrospective. Long hours is a failure, we should know what failed so it doesn't happen again. Their response? That's just the way it is in games. Absolutely zero desire or acknowledgement that it should be different.

Long hours is a failure, we should know what failed so it doesn't happen again. Their response? That's just the way it is in games. In my experience, that attitude is common and not limited to game developers or even programmers in general. American working culture tends to respect those who go above and beyond, or at least maintain the appearance of doing so.

Sad that working free overtime is seen as a virtue

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#112
post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

That's only one half of the solution, the other half is taking into consideration that there's less demand for video games critics than there's people wanting to do it, and possibly choose another less crowded career.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#113
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s toxic culture at the leadership level. When my employer asks for some outrageous development on a compressed time schedule I speak my mind. Maybe that’s why most AAA games suck these days.

> Maybe that’s why most AAA games suck these days. This comment shows lack of historical perspective. All of these complaints have been hot topics since before the term "AAA game" was invented. AAA games "suck" (if they do, which the customer base's wallets seem to to think so) because they have gotten too good at making money even against their customers' stated preferences, not because they are bad at anything.

Popular and profitable isn’t always the same thing as good.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#114
post #54
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did exactly what you described. Unfortunately there is an endless supply of fresh grads (and even very talented amateurs with no schooling) willing to work absolutely slave-like conditions to "live the dream".

Out if interest is writing games any more fun than writing web / database apps?

Yes and no. Some things are more fun, a lot of things feel about the same (solving logic issues or UI issues or database issues are just about the same no matter what subject it's about), some things are harder and more frustrating (debugging graphics issues can be very frustrating at times).

But I feel much, much more proud of the games I released than anything I've done outside of the games industry, even applications/services I've worked on that have been used by millions of people.

In corporate dev it just feels too much like I could have been replaced by just about anyone and those applications would have been basically the same, or only mattered for a few years before the company decided to throw everything out and rewrite everything, letting my old code disappear whereas with games my own ideas and creativity and how I determined the mechanics should feel and I have something at least partially unique to show for it after that people can go back and play decades later.

Games have their own problem, in that there's so many games out there that unless you've made a superhit, your game will fade to the point where probably no one is playing your game anymore anyway, in place of one of the hundreds of other games coming out all the time, but at least there are people out there that try to preserve as many games as they can, and there's a chance someone will run into your game, dust off the cobwebs, and share it in a video with the world, and a few more people will discover it and enjoy it.

Like for example I'm currently collecting and searching for obscure, fun puzzle games on the original Game Boy and Game Boy Color. All sorts of cool games there that probably only a handful of people in the world are playing right now.

A really cool surprise I can only find a couple of videos for online is Klustar for Game Boy Color. It's Tetris blocks coming in from all sides and you move a central mass around and rotate it, and try to make those blocks connect somewhere on that mass, which alters its shape, and make large squares to clear them and shrink your cluster, meanwhile some blocks slip past and land on the opposite edge of the board and stay there for the rest of the game, blocking you and other pieces, until eventually your cluster is too big and ungainly and oddly shaped that you can't place the blocks in good places anymore and all the pieces attach in bad spots and you fill up the board and the game ends. Really addicting. I don't know of another game like it out there right now. And probably no one is playing it. But at least I found it and I'm enjoying it.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#115

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

As long as individuals try to out-compete each other for desired positions, they won't form a block, in the form of a union, to achieve a common goal.

It's prisoner's dilemma.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#116

This seems all too often the case with development work in general. I see the same type of unreasonable expectations in devops. Maybe it's compounded by the software industry liking to hire young people with less experience but more free time. They may not yet have the soft skills to navigate unreasonable demands and give hard answers, and logistically a single person can more easily pull extra hours. I've found that…

This is objectively wrong. DevOps continues to be the best paying field to work in. This is also accommodated by the fact that employers do not hire inexperienced people to DevOps because you probably don’t want them screwing up the whole release pipeline. Look up latest SO survey results and you’ll see that DevOps is very nicely paid even across Europe.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#117
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably jumped the gun on the unionization part. I don’t know a lot about it but my impression of unions is not so bright. Maybe my ignorance is showing with that regard

Would be interesting to know exactly why you think (even if you know you don't know) unionization are not so good. So far on HN, I've noticed that people from the US seems to not like the idea at all about unionization while people from EU (me included!) see unionization as something good that protect workers. I do know that efforts around unionization are very strong in Europe, and helpful for the workers. Maybe the…

Again, my perception might not be reality. I don't really like the idea that I have to pay some organization to protect my rights as an employee. I have heard of unions strong arming people to register with them as well. I believe we should have a unified front for healthy working conditions but something about being a card carrying union member rubs me the wrong way. Now I work for the hypothetical toxic employer and a union. What happens when my opinion deviates from the union? Or maybe I just have trust issues.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#118
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My knowledge of unions is based entirely on the UK. They allow groups of employees who are subject to poor conditions to group together and participate in collective bargaining. Most programmers in the UK are not a member of a union as pay is fairly high and conditions relatively good, but the majority of public-sector and a lot of private-sector workers are. Unionising would be an excellent first step for employees…

> I see a lot of anti-union talk on HN That's because most people on HN are from the U.S. where a century of propaganda has convinced most people not only that poor people are lazy, but by extension that unions are evil, corrupt and lazy organizations infiltrated by organized crime. While this propaganda has a minority basis in reality in some cases, as all propaganda will have because propaganda can't be 100% fantas…

There are/were some excesses, though. And if you ask an european about (union supported) rubber rooms, s/he would also express some disbelief.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rubber-rooms-in-new-york-city... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rubber_Room

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#119
post #31

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand. That's the crux of this entire article in one sentence. This might be an upopular opinion here, but right now the supply of developers overall [across all industries] is much lower than demand. No one is forcing a developer to work for a game studio. It might be…

You're right. I have sympathy for game developers: no one should have to endure those conditions. But I also don't understand them. The state of the industry is so widely publicised, and there are so many amazing jobs outside of gaming for people with that skill set.

Probably the reason I don't get it is that I'm not really "into" games. I like playing Civ or overwatch a few times a month, mostly to keep in touch with old friends, but there must be people out there who care so much about video games that they can't imagine working on anything else. Maybe these are the people who choose to endure the awful conditions.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably jumped the gun on the unionization part. I don’t know a lot about it but my impression of unions is not so bright. Maybe my ignorance is showing with that regard

This comment right here is why I love HN so much. Nowhere else on the internet do I see such civility and humility. Thank you for actively being a part of making this community so wonderful and inclusive. Not to say that the mods don't work hard at this as well nor that there aren't others who contribute positively here. This is just such a perfect example that I'd like to draw attention to it.

This is not unique to or typical of HN.
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