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Groups of Homeless People

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Re: Groups of Homeless People

#41

Post by lacker »

caconym_ wrote: post #26
standardUser wrote: post #23

As a many-decades resident of Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and a as someone who has in the past been deeply involved in the street/drug scene and been associated with and friends with many dozens of people who have lived on the streets, I think this bizarre attempt at categorization missed the most visible and important group of people on the streets... People who choose to live on the streets. Go talk to people. As…

Do these people not fall under "the ruiners"?

No, the "ruiners" are the ones who impose large costs on the system. Some people are just trying to live peacefully on the streets. In large enough numbers, yeah you'll get people treating public spaces poorly and it'll cause public health problems.

The key difference is that people like this who are living on the streets intentionally, if they get kicked out of the area they're living in or if the friend group gets broken up, they'll just go back to living in regular housing. Things like housing centers aren't useful to this group, but if you have cops go through arresting people they will go away.

(For what it's worth, my source knowledge here is totally personal and anecdotal. When I was a new grad student at Berkeley I was surprised when a roommate of a friend told me he had recently spent a few days on the streets. He explained to me that he did this often, panhandling to make some extra money, thought it was generally fun, and met a number of people doing it for similar reasons.)

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#42

Post by lacker »

watwut wrote: post #34
standardUser wrote: post #23

As a many-decades resident of Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and a as someone who has in the past been deeply involved in the street/drug scene and been associated with and friends with many dozens of people who have lived on the streets, I think this bizarre attempt at categorization missed the most visible and important group of people on the streets... People who choose to live on the streets. Go talk to people. As…

Why is the amount of these growing?

I can't speak for every location but if you're traveling through the SF bay area, it's certainly a lot more expensive to get a hotel or other lodging than it used to be. Basically the relevant alternative might not be permanent housing, it might just be a cheap hotel room.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#43

Post by robk »

forevertogether wrote: post #35

Oh sure! Project your fears onto other people, and put them into psuedo-categories. Much easier to do this than to humanize them. Bravo for your technical analysis! Oh boy! This sarcasm is what living in Britain for 10 years has helped me master. I think deep down my sarcasm actually represents pain. - “We Americans stubbornly resist the possibility that what we do is profoundly shaped by policies, norms, systems, an…

You lost me at the "society's most vulnerable" rhetoric. Tired and misleading. Bye.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#44

Post by educationdata »

ende wrote: post #36
ghostly_s wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, sounds like a problem that can easily be solved with the meager expense of public facilities, trashcans, and open spaces that aren't sidewalks for the unhoused to hang out in.

I think you’re missing the point. The people that OP is referring to refuse to use all the public facilities offered, they don’t want to sleep indoors, they don’t want to use trash cans, they don’t want to piss in mobile bathrooms or take showers, they don’t want to be corralled into designated hang out spots. They want to go wherever they want to, camp out wherever they want to, they want to collect whatever garbage…

Interesting. How do those people think of jail time? Will arresting scare them away or change their behavior?

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#45

Post by fiblye »

_ikuh wrote: post #2

I was pretty with it until 4 and 5. The premise that certain groups of people without housing "can't survive without the kind of assistance that money can't buy" is condescending and elitist at best.

The description is spot on and not condescending.

There are many veterans out there who will tell anyone that they just don’t know what to do once they leave the forces. They need to have their entire weekly schedule planned out and someone to help them with that planning. Many ex-cons have the same problem, and you’ll find a similar issue with 18 year olds who are fresh out of school and pushed out their parents’s home.

This phenomenon, institutionalization, is a very real issue. For guys who have their whole life planned out daily for them and superiors to assist them with finding housing and dealing with medical care, having a load of freedom tossed at them when they’re over 40 is overwhelming. They’re not dumb. It’s just that humans have trouble adapting as we get older.

A considerable number of veteran support networks and veteran-oriented jobs exist to help people adapt to retiring during middle age.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#47

Post by 01100011 »

standardUser wrote: post #23

As a many-decades resident of Santa Cruz and San Francisco, and a as someone who has in the past been deeply involved in the street/drug scene and been associated with and friends with many dozens of people who have lived on the streets, I think this bizarre attempt at categorization missed the most visible and important group of people on the streets... People who choose to live on the streets. Go talk to people. As…

Yep. Some people just get sick of banging their heads against the wall, trying to make it in normal society. Life on the streets can be tough, but like anything, there are people with the skills to survive and prosper. If you're someone who gets little pleasure from responsibilities and owning things, and especially if you like to escape with drugs, being homeless in a temperate climate can look enticing.

I think it's hard to talk about it, because people hear it and think you're saying all homeless people choose to live that way. It's not like that, but some people definitely do choose that life.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#48

Post by clort »

ende wrote: post #36
ghostly_s wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, sounds like a problem that can easily be solved with the meager expense of public facilities, trashcans, and open spaces that aren't sidewalks for the unhoused to hang out in.

I think you’re missing the point. The people that OP is referring to refuse to use all the public facilities offered, they don’t want to sleep indoors, they don’t want to use trash cans, they don’t want to piss in mobile bathrooms or take showers, they don’t want to be corralled into designated hang out spots. They want to go wherever they want to, camp out wherever they want to, they want to collect whatever garbage…

people who are extreme along these lines can fall into the ruiners category (eg taking drugs in a childrens play area and pissing on the slide).

people who are not so extreme perhaps fall into the first category. I mean, I know people who live free because they want to. They don't cause any issues to the public around them except that they don't pay local taxes and are therefore a burden on the state in some minimal way (simplistically, they do use the roads and other services provided by the government). If housing were cheap enough they might take advantage of that.

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#49

Post by forgotmypw »

Even using the term "homeless" itself illustrates how the author lumps everyone who does not have a permanent building that they are registered and in full "possession" of into one big category.

One could just as easily come up with five stories about "housed" people. Reading this article makes me think that the author has based their knowledge on researching Wikipedia and papers...

Re: Groups of Homeless People

#50

Post by pjc50 »

ende wrote: post #36
ghostly_s wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, sounds like a problem that can easily be solved with the meager expense of public facilities, trashcans, and open spaces that aren't sidewalks for the unhoused to hang out in.

I think you’re missing the point. The people that OP is referring to refuse to use all the public facilities offered, they don’t want to sleep indoors, they don’t want to use trash cans, they don’t want to piss in mobile bathrooms or take showers, they don’t want to be corralled into designated hang out spots. They want to go wherever they want to, camp out wherever they want to, they want to collect whatever garbage…

So, libertarians, but without the money?

(How do these people get into this state? Is this just a concentration phenomenon, where people who think that all move to the same place?)

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