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MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

reuters.com

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Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual rights is a Western philosophy. Eastern philosophies have long favored collectivism, including the “free” Japan.

I've read your comment several times and am having trouble understanding your underlying point - could you elaborate?

It's a common apologia tactic for authoritarian regimes, in which their authoritarianism is justified by saying that, actually, that particular ethnicity prefers to be ruled by an iron-fisted dictatorship.

Basically, the structure and ideology of the regime is assumed to be the authentic expression of something inherent in that particular culture, rather than the product of material circumstances or deliberate choices by a political elite.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#152
post #122

This is what a commerce war looks like. It's not about China being an oppressive state, spying, etc. The former didn't matter all these decades, and the latter goes on forever from all sides and nobody bats an eye. It's about China catching up to (and surpassing in some cases) US tech, and not being content to be the mere "factory of the US" but sell its own stuff. Like Korea, Taiwan, and Japan each did in their own…

Japan caught up and surpassed the US without the corporate espionage or subsequent commerce war.

The US required Japan to back down from its ambitions during the 80s. Part of it was currency devaluation that debased Japanese industry and inflated the real estate bubble. Of course, Japan had to do it, because you know, they don't have an army. Things are different with China.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may surprise some of you but the idea of "elite school" is unknown to a good percent, possibly the majority, of people even in the US. I went to an "elite school" and my GF didn't think much of it. She just thought that it's a school where a lot of politicians and rich people send their kids but didn't infer any special status or qualifications from that observation. In some ways, she's absolutely right but cultur…

This is simply not true. Everyone in the US knows about Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc. They are culturally significant institutions. So much so that people use "MIT" as a stand in for "excellence". "MIT of X". "kind of like the M.I.T. [sic] for magic." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_in_popular_culture If your gf didn't think much of your school, maybe it's not as "elite" as you wish it were. Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc are…

This may be true in the kind of upper-middle class bubble where people discreetly brag about going to Yale, but if you stop random people on the street and ask them to free-associate about MIT most of the time you won't get anything except some vague understanding that nerds go there, although now the Big Bang Theory may have shifted that kind of common cultural cachet to Caltech.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ZTE is super popular amount the more "budget" carriers like boost, cricket, metro, etc. Not to mention their parent companies like Tmobile and Sprint which I'd still consider semi-budget carriers. Source: Work in phone repair. We don't repair phones that cost 100USD new and have a non-existant parts market.

What is a “premium” carrier and what are they offering for the extra price?

Mostly just AT&T and Verizon, and Verizon is definitely the more "premium" one. I consider them premium because they cost more, they don't try to be the most affordable, they own other brands for that (cricket, etc.).

The biggest difference is their coverage. If you live in, and mostly travel within a metro area you're fine with sprint/tmobile, but anybody who's ever travelled will find that verizon is the only option if you work in, or go to the middle of nowhere at all. Basically Verizon has towers everywhere, including farmland that I can't figure out why they'd want to cover, but hey you get coverage while picking blueberries!

(This only goes for the USA, and includes my experience living in Michigan working in phone repair/retail, as well as my travels with other people/their carriers outside of Michigan)

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#155
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan caught up and surpassed the US without the corporate espionage or subsequent commerce war.

You should brush up on the history of Japanese-US trade relations during the Reagan era if you are seriously convinced that is a remotely faithful retelling of history.

Enlighten us?

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should brush up on the history of Japanese-US trade relations during the Reagan era if you are seriously convinced that is a remotely faithful retelling of history.

Enlighten us?

The US felt extremely threatened by Japanese manufacturing in the 80s and in fact most of the world had this cultural idea of Japan becoming the dominant global technology force. As a consequence the US government imposed a 100% tariff on Japanese electronics, accused the country of "currency manipulation" (sound familiar?). And on the topic of IP Japanese faced the very same copycat accusations that China does now.

Let's just take this fortune article from 1987 as an example:

http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive...

Try and replace every occurence of Japan with China and see how it sounds.

It even seeped into fiction. There's a reason neo-tokyo imagery is at the forefront of Gibson-era sci-fi.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#157
post #5
post #3

Is there any evidence that these two companies aren’t Chinese government operatives?

Does it make any difference when US companies are participating in PRISM anyway?

Reading the answers to your comment, can get pretty depressive. As people are just taking spionage for granted, trying to choose who we would want to let spy on us.

Please, can we try, or at least pretend we are trying to defend our rights to privacy of data that should be private?

I dont want to have to choose who should spy on me. We are entering into this dystopian reality, and somehow we are fine with it.. but there will be a time, we will understand it's too late, and theres no going back.

I hope we wake up sooner than that. Dont just accept it as it is, it will have severe consequences to our future, if we let them to have all of our data, because this means complete control of our lives and the end of the little free will we still have.

It feels to me like choosing which mob lord would be the less evil to me.. We need to understand we dont actually need to make this kind of choice. Resist. Dont let them have it.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know MIT in China too. They don't read Reuters much though.

I used to live there and they don't really know MIT in China. I'd say only among the academics. Certainly not a household name.

I used to live in China too, and I'd certainly say it's known among the university educated.

Name dropping is a big thing in China. "Oh, my son went to Beijing University/Harvard/etc".

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#159
First off, I am not pro or anti USA or China. Just curious and hoping to have a constructive dialogue.

What moral high ground is USA on in the Snowden era? Why trust Cisco or Apple or Google or Facebook or Microsoft in USA's Prism? With the "Five Eyes", how to trust Nokia or Ericsson or Blackberry? What ethical high-ground are the tax evading tech giants on? Lets not forget how the pharma mobs are gaming the patent system to run an extortion ring on life saving medicines like insulin or the planned obsolescence when the world is rushing to reduce global warming.

Its sad to see a place of learning is getting into politics & business. How different is this from the patent battles between Oracle & Google or Apple, Microsoft & Samsung? Google is poaching chips guys from various sources to compete with Apple. Then all the poaching in AI & self driving & electric cars. Lets not forget the "borrowing" done my Jobs & Gates from Xerox PARC that founded the Silicon Valley.

As a consumer, due to Huawei & Mi. Samsung & other brands have started lowering the price. Hope Google poached the right team to make a better chip than what Apple has. Hopefully Apple also will start selling sensible priced devices. MIT should instead be working for growing an opensource culture in China. Which already seems to have something of that sort but limited due to all being in Chinese language.

Re: MIT cuts ties with Chinese tech firms Huawei, ZTE

#160
post #122

This is what a commerce war looks like. It's not about China being an oppressive state, spying, etc. The former didn't matter all these decades, and the latter goes on forever from all sides and nobody bats an eye. It's about China catching up to (and surpassing in some cases) US tech, and not being content to be the mere "factory of the US" but sell its own stuff. Like Korea, Taiwan, and Japan each did in their own…

Japan caught up and surpassed the US without the corporate espionage or subsequent commerce war.

Maybe you didn't follow the news at the time of the Japan meteoric rise in the 80s/90s (and the even more prevalent accusations of copying etc in 60s/70s).

Here's a speech from the House of Representatives (1989):

https://fas.org/irp/congress/1989_cr/h890712-japan.htm

And here's the blurb of an earlier 1983 book -- do the accusations sound similar?

"This analysis of Japanese business practices covers industries from automobiles to computers and argues that the success of Japanese business is founded upon methods such as industrial espionage, government subsidies leading to unfair pricing, dumping, and exploitation of domestic labor"

Here is a famous example:

https://www.nytimes.com/1982/06/23/business/japanese-executi...

In the 90s, when Japanese started dominating and buying American firms left and right accusations in the press and politicians got even worse -- and the political threats and warnings against Japan were common occurence (similar to Trump's anti-globalization speeches/promises, but at a time when America-first wasn't a taboo of both Republicans and Democrats, and politicians pay more lip service to factory / blue collar jobs). There were also tariffs involved, and the whole thing...

But then again, aside financially, Japan was a neutered ally of the US since WWII (when Japan was put under military supervision), and their dominance was capped -- whereas China is 8x Japan's population, and not subservient politically and diplomatically. It makes sense things can get uglier in this case re: the commerce war.

E.g., one difference was that Japan could be pushed (as did Germany, another neutered since WWII ally at the time), into this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

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