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Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

bbc.co.uk

21–30 of 285 posts

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#21

Perhaps the pilots didn't have the energy to pull up due to the famine?

You don't belong in this community

As per HN comment guidelines, it's best not to reply to comments like this and just flag them. The admins are usually quick to respond.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone have a mirror of that video?

This was posted on PPrune: "Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789 Since this video may not be coming back I'll post a sort of transcript from memory since I was lucky enough to get to watch it. I'll try and just describe what I saw and keep my commentary/speculation to a minimum - in . Bear in mind this is a non-pilot observer's take on it from flaky memory: There is a fair bit of intro talk then the sim. They are…

Since this video may not be coming back I'll post a sort of transcript from memory since I was lucky enough to get to watch it. I'll try and just describe what I saw and keep my commentary/speculation to a minimum - in . Bear in mind this is a non-pilot observer's take on it from flaky memory

Was the video pulled? Who did that, and why?

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#23

This is a software screwup. It's buggy software due to rush to market. I hope they do an analysis of the whole project. We can all learn from it.

The software did what it was supposed to, the issue was the specification necessitated by the design change.

Yep, the issues started way earlier than the software. In fact the software is at the very end of the chain here, unless you also want to insert "no training". It all started when they wanted those big engines crammed into an airframe not designed to hold them, so as to try to quickly catch up to shifting market demands being met by Airbus.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was posted on PPrune: "Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789 Since this video may not be coming back I'll post a sort of transcript from memory since I was lucky enough to get to watch it. I'll try and just describe what I saw and keep my commentary/speculation to a minimum - in . Bear in mind this is a non-pilot observer's take on it from flaky memory: There is a fair bit of intro talk then the sim. They are…

Since this video may not be coming back I'll post a sort of transcript from memory since I was lucky enough to get to watch it. I'll try and just describe what I saw and keep my commentary/speculation to a minimum - in . Bear in mind this is a non-pilot observer's take on it from flaky memory Was the video pulled? Who did that, and why?

The speculation is that his employer, which flies a lot of 737s, didn't like him using a company simulator to illustrate a safety issue with the 737.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was posted on PPrune: "Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789 Since this video may not be coming back I'll post a sort of transcript from memory since I was lucky enough to get to watch it. I'll try and just describe what I saw and keep my commentary/speculation to a minimum - in . Bear in mind this is a non-pilot observer's take on it from flaky memory: There is a fair bit of intro talk then the sim. They are…

Since this video may not be coming back I'll post a sort of transcript from memory since I was lucky enough to get to watch it. I'll try and just describe what I saw and keep my commentary/speculation to a minimum - in . Bear in mind this is a non-pilot observer's take on it from flaky memory Was the video pulled? Who did that, and why?

He pulled it himself.

https://twitter.com/MenTourPilot/status/1113723580284583936

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#26

There you have it, folks, programmers killing people. No, it wasn't on-purpose, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. This, of course, has been happening for a long time, it's just getting more and more obvious now. I feel strongly that AF 447 was an example. It's important to understand that this is the natural result of two trends. One, software/hardware systems continue to become more and more complex, many time…

It's to early to conclude it's only a software bug. And blaming programmers is the absolutely not the way to avoid issues. Humans makes errors, always. Programmers or not. Some errors are unfortunately dramatic (talk about this to surgeons for example).

Now to remove the human factor as much as possible, there is processes and engineering techniques. If the failure was indeed caused by the software, and not by other defects in the plane design, the real question is how could it pass any safety check. For me, in any scenario, the first really wrong thing is how the plane passed all safety checks without the defect being detected, internally at Boeing as well as externally.

As more information unveil, it seems that the prime suspect is the pressure to release a plane too quickly.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#27

pilots should not have to fight the system. can there not be a simple button, "switch to manual"?

Airline safety has increased by a factor of 100 in the last 50 years, in terms of fatalities / miles travelled. Both in the past and now, far more accidents are the result of pilot error than failure of any system. Gloryfing the good old days of pilot jocks just isn’t supported by the actual data, this incident nonewithstanding.

Isn't that orthogonal to the previous statement? The ideal situation would be to have fly-by-wire and a single hands-off button instead of HAL saying "Sorry Dave, but I cannot do that".

Of course, commercial pilots would need to have an actual interest in flying manually. The Gimli glider pilot was an enthusiastic pilot outside professional aviation.

I don't know if such an interest is still possible with modern exploitative labor practices.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#29

pilots should not have to fight the system. can there not be a simple button, "switch to manual"?

there is a manual override but once you are fully trimmed down manually trimming up takes time and time is something you don't have much of with the plane pitching down near the ground.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#30
post #18

I’d love to see those people who accused the airline and crew of being incompetent to apologize in the light of these reports. It was shameful to see Boeing actively encouraging that narrative behind the scenes. Especially considering it plays on racist stereotypes equating „Africa“ with bad training/bad safety record/…. The idea of „dingy third world airline“ was ridiculous on its face, considering how bad a fit fly…

While I agree with your sentiment on stereotypes, looking at the link your comment seems misleading. The airlines you mention score lower on 'Safety Rating' due to lack of IOSA certification. "Registering for IOSA certification and auditing is not mandatory therefore an airline that does not have IOSA certification may have either failed the IOSA audit or alternatively chosen not to participate." For a budget airline…

Safety incidents in air travel are thankfully low. Therefore, it is impossible to find meaningful differences in that primary data alone. You have to find some proxies, and certification schemes seem at least defensible in that regard.

In any case, not being a „budget“ airline that has to cut such costs would seem to fit rather well with my argument that Ethopian is not some gravel-airstrip bush operation flying leftover Sowiet machinery.

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