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The sexes don’t feel pain the same way

nature.com

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Re: The sexes don’t feel pain the same way

#141

Post by classicsnoot »

foldr wrote: post #139
classicsnoot wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like you keep moving the goalposts and your initial argument was "I have no personal experience with [x] so I don't believe [x] is a thing." I can't leave links to my life experiences, but as I finish my undergrad I have heard every type of teacher and student maintain that the only differences between men and women are socially constructed. It is common knowledge and thus not really debated. The one time I…

If that is a common point of view, it should be easy to provide a reference to someone expressing it in writing. I suspect that you weren't listening very carefully to what people were actually saying.

You've been given evidence ITT and you've shifted the goalposts. From your posts here it is very clear that you are making a concerted yet subtle effort to minimize an issue at least 4 other posters and myself have had direct interactions with. I'm sure you have subjectively good reasons for playing this game.

This isn't a problem, though. This is probably what happens when it turns out the Russian bogeyman was just a fever dream. Indeed, being in a public University in the North East as well as 2 of my 3 concentrations being in the liberal arts, I'm quite used to people ignoring actual fires as they continuously harangue everyone about potential fires.

Re: The sexes don’t feel pain the same way

#142

Post by foldr »

classicsnoot wrote: post #141
foldr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is a common point of view, it should be easy to provide a reference to someone expressing it in writing. I suspect that you weren't listening very carefully to what people were actually saying.

You've been given evidence ITT and you've shifted the goalposts. From your posts here it is very clear that you are making a concerted yet subtle effort to minimize an issue at least 4 other posters and myself have had direct interactions with. I'm sure you have subjectively good reasons for playing this game. This isn't a problem, though. This is probably what happens when it turns out the Russian bogeyman was just…

I don't know what ITT stands for. Which evidence are you referring to?

I cannot see any connection between the second paragraph of your comment and what we're talking about.

Re: The sexes don’t feel pain the same way

#143

Post by dragonwriter »

insickness wrote: post #84
jdavis703 wrote: post #2

The article writes that in 2016 the “National Institutes of Health (NIH) made it a requirement for grant applicants to justify their choice of the sex of animals used in experiments.” I can only imagine that some people took this as yet another example of political correctness creeping in to the public sphere. Hopefully the results from this study helps to bolster more scientific studies using diverse populations (in…

> another example of political correctness It's also the opposite. There's a strain of far left ideology that claims men and women are mentally identical, despite much scientific evidence to the contrary. If they were identical, studies on both genders would be unnecessary.

> There's a strain of far left ideology that claims men and women are mentally identical

Strange that, having been on the left my whole adult life and had substantial contact with the far left, I've frequently run into people on the right talking about this strain of far left ideology, but never actually encountered it outside of those descriptions.

Re: The sexes don’t feel pain the same way

#144

Post by dragonwriter »

nabnob wrote: post #116
foldr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a strain of far left ideology that claims men and women are mentally identical I've never seen anyone actually claim this. Often, people on the right want people on the left to be claiming this because it would be easy to refute. But in fact what people on the left are usually doing is expressing skepticism that various aspects of the status quo (such as the distribution of genders in various professions) ar…

I get into debates about this topic all the time. There are definitely people on the left who claim that sex isn't binary, and that the existence of intersex people somehow disproves the idea of male/female sexes.

> There are definitely people on the left who claim that sex isn't binary

It fairly obviously is not. That sex traits are multidimensional and that there are more than two ways that that they present in combination is...not really a matte about which there can be serious, fact-based debate.

> and that the existence of intersex people somehow disproves the idea of male/female sexes.

It (and a number of other phenomena that aren't typically labelled intersex, including, but not limited to, the way certain physical sex-linked traits other than external genitalia in transexuals are, on average, more typical of the sex corresponding to their gender identity than to sex identified by their at-birh genitalia or combination of sex chromosomes) obviously disproves the idea of exclusive stereotypical male and female sexes.

But none of that is relevant to the upthread issue, which was the supposed claim that males and females are mentally identical. That is a rather distinct claim from “sex is more complex than a male/female binary distinction”.

Re: The sexes don’t feel pain the same way

#145

Post by dragonwriter »

switch_kickflip wrote: post #125
foldr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point of view under discussion. The question is whether there are cognitive differences between men and women. One can acknowledge that there are without thinking that it is these (usually quite small) cognitive differences that are primarily responsible for behavioral differences. That being said, I would be surprised if you could find an example of anyone at all prominent or influential on the left e…

> I would be surprised if you could find an example of anyone at all prominent or influential on the left expressing in writing the position that you quote. How about this for a prominent and influential source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x The headline is "Neurosexism: the myth that men and women have different brains" Under the sub-heading "Cultural paths": "So if it’s not brain hard-wiring, h…

> You can inject people with testosterone and estrogen and observe behavioral changes (as people attest to in this very thread)

If sex-linked behavioral changes at explainable by hormone differences and can reproduced by in vivo manipulation of hormone levels, that supports rather than refutes the idea that intrinsic brain differences are not responsible for the differences.

In any case, though, the article does not support the upthread claims of either a view that there are no sex differences in mentality or that there are no physically-based differences in behavior, and all are social, because it addresses not behavior or mentality but brains.

Re: The sexes don’t feel pain the same way

#146

Post by stretchwithme »

have_faith wrote: post #71
mathieuh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely if you model the non-emergent properties well enough the emergent properties will arise anyway

Depends if you think the universe is deterministic or not I guess.

Even if it is, emergent properties can't be deduced from their precursors. The whole is greater (or lesser) than the sum of the parts.
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