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I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

blog.samuelmaddock.com

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Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#591

Post by morpheuskafka »

danShumway wrote: post #311
ktm5j wrote: post #253

I also find the title to be rather sensational.. "I tried creating a web browser" ^ "Google blocked me" implies that Google blocked them from creating a web browser.. which is not the case.

If a single company can effectively decide whether a bunch of 3rd party sites that they don't control work on your browser, how is that any different? Google is effectively deciding that anyone other than pre-approved browsers can't play Netflix content. If an ISP fully embraced the Net Neutrality repeal and started blocking video content, and someone posted on HN that ISPs were "blocking them from building a streami…

To be fair, I think that it's primarily the content owners pushing this ridiculousness. OP's project is not a general purpose browser, and it will not compete substantially with any Google products, so I don't think this is a case of Google trying to knock out OP.

I completely agree that this is unacceptable... but I think the blame really rests on the content owners who forced this DRM in the first place. Every damn thing on Netflix is widely available on torrents in hours, so it's totally useless and just makes things worse for everyday consumers.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#592

Post by morpheuskafka »

jedberg wrote: post #331
throwaway2048 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix only content isn't "rare" anymore, sorry if I don't purchase this particular red herring. DRM benefits Netflix just as much, if not even more than it does traditional media companies.

It’s very rare. I’ll bet you can’t name a single show that Netflix produces. Remember all those big name shows are produced by other people and then sold exclusively to Netflix. DRM does not benefit Netflix. It’s complicated and takes a lot of resources to run. They’d much rather not have to deal with it at all. Having DRM does not gain them any customers — in fact it loses them some. But it’s the only way they can g…

Both Amazon and Netflix make the most money and are best known for their excellent original shows. Why did they bother to setup DRM for them? If they opposed it, they could have made it a selling point that you could watch them in 4K on any device without hassle.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#593

Post by lugg »

chii wrote: post #552
Simple_Guy wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's the important point. DRM is the price one must pay to consume BIG MEDIA content. there's no getting around it. if you want it you have to play by their rules.

While that's true at the moment, I had hoped that the web being such a big market, it would entice content producers to deploy without DRM for fear of losing market share to other content providers who do. But with the introduction of DRM into the standard, this is no longer possible.

How did it make it into the standard?

And why would anyone follow this standard?

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#594

Post by kibwen »

Ironchefpython wrote: post #511
Daiz wrote: post #504

Boy howdy, this is one subject where I loathe saying "I told you so", but... I sure told you so.[1] HTML DRM is antithetical to the Open Web itself. It was built on a sham of "plugin-free" media playback, but all we did was change Flash and Silverlight for a whole range of closed black boxes, which in turn are effectively all controlled by Big Media ( to make it crystal clear: EME was built with third-party decryptio…

To be fair, even if there wasn't a DRM-standard, he still wouldn't be able to build his application, because there would still be DRM.

Hear hear. The parent commenter's I-told-you-so attitude frustrates me because it completely misses the point: Google de-facto controls the web, and the W3C is essentially irrelevant. Trying to suggest that the W3C's opposition would have stopped any of this is completely naive, and only serves to shift the blame.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#595

Post by Someone »

profmonocle wrote: post #521
Daiz wrote: post #504

Boy howdy, this is one subject where I loathe saying "I told you so", but... I sure told you so.[1] HTML DRM is antithetical to the Open Web itself. It was built on a sham of "plugin-free" media playback, but all we did was change Flash and Silverlight for a whole range of closed black boxes, which in turn are effectively all controlled by Big Media ( to make it crystal clear: EME was built with third-party decryptio…

The saddest part is it doesn't even seem to accomplish anything. What would-be pirates are actually being foiled by this? Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime use EME, but all their exclusive content is still readily available on torrent sites. Does it raise the difficulty bar? It's hard to imagine anyone who knows how to rip video from their browser doesn't know how to torrent something.

DRM can be successful even if piracy remains rampant.

What counts is whether adding DRM increases revenues enough to warrant the effort needed to add DRM.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#596

Post by nerdponx »

Mindwipe wrote: post #440
nerdponx wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is your intellectual property, you get to decide how it is used. Another poster here made an interesting point, that this wasn't true until the 90s. Deciding "how it is used" is different from (and broader than) deciding "who gets to distribute it".

> Another poster here made an interesting point, that this wasn't true until the 90s. This was always true. Most copyright traditions recognise Droit Moral, and the right for the author to determine the integrity and treatment of the work, and have for, in some cases, literally hundreds of years.

In the USA at the federal level I'm only aware of VARA which was passed in 1990.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#597

Post by bscphil »

ghostly_s wrote: post #293
noitsnot wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope Kodi makes some decent progress. I installed it a few weeks back and it is a rough experience. The docs on how to do simple things seem to be nonexistant because they don't want to be sued and shutdown entirely.

Kodi's been around for like 15 years now so if you're hoping for it to become something else, I would stop holding your breath. I'm not thrilled that it's non-free nor about some of the changes they're making, but I've found Plex to be pretty pleasant to set up.

> I'm not thrilled that it's non-free

Could you explain what you mean by that? Kodi seems to be GPL 2 licensed: https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/blob/master/LICENSE.md

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#598

Post by _mdpn »

gerash wrote: post #138
ohithereyou wrote: post #21

This is why I break DRM when I can, treating its presence as advisory at best. From a balancing test standpoint, if you want a technological solution to people copying your work then I think you should not be allowed to claim copyright protection of your work. Pick a legal or technical solution to unauthorized copying, not both.

What kind of argument is that? Do you choose to either prosecute a burgler or put a lock on your door but not both? That said, the media industry as a whole has pushed more than what's necessary to protect its content (eg. DMCA, extending the copyright window) and a more fruitful course of action is to get Congress to change those laws.

>Do you choose to either prosecute a burgler or put a lock on your door but not both?

Physical property and intellectual property are not the same, so this analogy does not hold.

Copyright is fundamentally a balancing act between these two opposing interests:

  - the right of a creator to make money of their creation for a limited time

  - the right of the public "to promote the progress of science and useful arts"
There is no such duty for a physical property owner to allow others to access, view, or build upon his property.

If you choose to use technological means to deny society the second interest above you should not also be allowed to claim the protection of the first interest above.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#599

Post by alexnewman »

alexnewman wrote: post #46

I wont use browsers with widevine. I refused to include widevine in any browser I worked on. Widevine is clearly a backdoor and chrome is often installed setuid root

Huh, i guess that confirms widevine's illicit use of pushing unsigned libraries is being covered up.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#600

Post by alexnewman »

asveikau wrote: post #315
alexnewman wrote: post #46

I wont use browsers with widevine. I refused to include widevine in any browser I worked on. Widevine is clearly a backdoor and chrome is often installed setuid root

Who installs chrome as setuid root?

https://forum.unity.com/threads/why-does-chrome-sandbox-need...
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