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Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#131

Post by jonathanstrange »

DigiMortal wrote: post #96
saiya-jin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is awesome, I appreciate and know how lucky we are to be here. In which regard? Compared to which place?

We lead the world in R&D, we aren't in a surveillance state like China (~1.3B people), we aren't undeveloped, we have the US dollar - the commanding world currency. We develop the best military technology, space technology, most all technology. We issue the most patents, by far. We (as people) have more rights than most all other nations and we led many other rights to attain rights for their own citizens. We protect…

Okay. But you have shitty border controls, I've heard.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#132

Post by mavhc »

musha68k wrote: post #44
mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better locations for this reason alone.

Maybe they're just trying to make flying so annoying people don't do it, to help with global warming. Just video conference, easier, faster, better for not drowning.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#133

Post by rmdashrfstar »

jancsika wrote: post #80
chrisseaton wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country Going to a prison somewhere in the US is 'reentry' I suppose.

OP was talking about being forced to unlock devices. Is there evidence of US citizens going to prison for the act of refusing to unlock a device at the border?

No, none that has been presented.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#134

Post by geofft »

DigiMortal wrote: post #96
saiya-jin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is awesome, I appreciate and know how lucky we are to be here. In which regard? Compared to which place?

We lead the world in R&D, we aren't in a surveillance state like China (~1.3B people), we aren't undeveloped, we have the US dollar - the commanding world currency. We develop the best military technology, space technology, most all technology. We issue the most patents, by far. We (as people) have more rights than most all other nations and we led many other rights to attain rights for their own citizens. We protect…

> We develop the best military technology

Then why didn't you win in Vietnam?

> We issue the most patents, by far.

The US decides what is patentable, so that's basically a participation trophy.

> We (as people) have more rights than most all other nations

How have you enumerated this?

> We protect Europe and the West.

By handing half of Germany over to Stalin?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#135

Post by busterarm »

falcor84 wrote: post #100
musha68k wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better locations for this reason alone.

Alternatively, prefer to avoid bringing your own devices with you when you fly. Leave your laptop and smartphone at home, and rent temporary ones after you cross.

Better, have a secure server at home and ansible playbooks to set up laptops (including getting any minor secrets that you need onto that laptop. Restrict more important stuff to just ssh).

If your threat model doesn't include physical tampering/rootkits, just wipe your devices pre-travel and set it up when you get where you're going. If it does and you can afford to mitigate that risk, arrange to have cheap new devices at your destination and travel with nothing.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#136

Post by jeffalyanak »

How do multi-account devices fare under these rules? What if I only have access to account A and not account B?

What if unlocking the device requires a security key that I do not have with me?

My intuition is that they'd still treat that as though I was impeding their search, but I wonder legally if it changes anything.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#137

Post by everdrive »

a012 wrote: post #28
alex_hitchins wrote: post #18

The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.

Or simply just leave yours at home, buy a burner phone on arrival.

The other thing to consider is that a burner phone will look quite suspicious.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#138

Post by shiado »

gruez wrote: post #25
mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

>Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry What's the definition of "temporarily" in this case?

I would like to know too. I thought Obama's NDAA allowed indefinite detentions?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#139

Post by Tharkun »

rocqua wrote: post #39

It was my understanding that 5-th amendment protections against unreasonable searches are suspended at the border. That would certainly include customs at the airport. So, in a strict legal sense, demanding to unlock a device does not violate the 5th.

As a non-American, can someone explain to me why the entire constitution wouldn't be applicable upon entering your own country? This makes no sense to me, but it seems to be the way it is?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#140

Post by vageli »

_8j7i wrote: post #75

"...he clammed up, taking the Fifth, and citing constitutional rights against unwarranted searches. ...border agents told him he had no constitutional nor any legal protections, and threatened him with criminal charges should he not concede to the search. ...he was eventually allowed to leave with his belongings, the devices still locked, and no charges were pressed." My goodness! I guess those protections did exit a…

Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for this type of detainment?
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