25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds • Hacker News Board

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#111

Post by leftyted » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #21

oraphalous wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights... Or maybe people who have no particular expertise in political matters should stop opining so much about them? And maybe we should stop politicising all aspects of culture and existence. There is so much more to life.

There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I l…

> There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics.

People act like "everything is political" is such a stunning insight. I disagree. It's as stunning an insight as saying "everything affects everything else". Yeah, sure, everything does affect everything else. Everything affects everythign else in mysterious and unknowable ways but that isn't particularly interesting and it isn't clear how that fact should affect one's behavior.

> If you have listeners you have a responsibility for what you are saying whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter whether those 1M instagram followers just like to see you do backflips on a bicycle. If have 1M followers you have influence. If you have 10M followers you are a political force. Even if you just ride bikes on instagram.

This makes my skin crawl. The presumption here is that a person can calculate how that person's beliefs and the expression of those beliefs (i.e. actions) will benefit/harm the world and act accordingly. Yeah, no. People think they can do that, but they're deluding themselves. In order to do that, you'd have to model the world. We can't even model a single person.

> Saying nothing even remotely political is better than completely screwing up ("Lex Notch"), but it's still the easy way out.

No, it's the hard way out, which is why most public figures babble endlessly about politics.

Hannah Arendt:

> The main characteristic of any event is that it has not been foreseen. We don’t know the future but everybody acts into the future. Nobody knows what he is doing because the future is being done, action is being done by a “we” and not an “I.” Only if I were the only one acting could I foretell the consequences of what I’m doing. What actually happens is entirely contingent, and contingency is indeed one of the biggest factors in all history.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#112

Post by johannes1234321 » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #55

ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

Why is it stupid? Instead of spending hours working to understand and implement a concept / fix. Get other people to do it for internet points. Seems surpisingly “smart” to me. It all depends on what you’re optinizing for.

Maybe you are optimizing for fulfilling the current assignment, not for long-term efficiency. Next homework the professor will give out will takelonger than needed, since you only have the solutions, but no understanding.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#113

Post by cptskippy » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

IT, like Medicine, is seen today as a pathway to a good job and financial security. So there are tons of people entering the field with no real interest in it.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#114

Post by malvosenior » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

madez wrote: post #89

jaabe wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think stackoverflow is a problem at all, I think it’s much better to have people ask stupid questions than to call them stupid. That being said, I do think people owe it to themselves to read the documentation first. I’m extremely rarely in a situation where the official documentation isn’t monumentally better than every other option. There are a few exceptions of course, when the official documentation flat…

It seems to me there is some kind of political war going on when it comes to education about computers. One side argues, they must know what a computer is, how it roughly works, what it can do and cannot do, and how you can program it. The other side says, knowing how to use Microsoft Office and Excel, and Facebook and Instagram 'responsibly' is enough, and they fight tooth and nails that the education doesn't become…

I think you're right but there's more to it. When you can succeed by using your brain and technology, it doesn't matter so much who your parents are. The thing is we still have a massive legacy of wealth and power fueled by inheritance and other non-meritocratic systems.

This is why you see old media, non-STEM academia and other classic playgrounds of the rich first in line to bash tech. It's an existential threat to their power and control over society.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#115

Post by malvosenior » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #95

jaabe wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think stackoverflow is a problem at all, I think it’s much better to have people ask stupid questions than to call them stupid. That being said, I do think people owe it to themselves to read the documentation first. I’m extremely rarely in a situation where the official documentation isn’t monumentally better than every other option. There are a few exceptions of course, when the official documentation flat…

In this case, s/stupid/lazy.

If you're lazy about learning for long enough you'll end up stupid.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#116

Post by rb808 » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #68

tannhaeuser wrote: post #7

Heh, he's using an XPS 13. Take that, Thinkpad snobs.

Snobs? I have an XPS after previously being a ThinkPad fan, the XPS was much more expensive.

ooo, I was just about to choose thinkpad over xps mainly because of the keyboard. Does XPS have any advantage?

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#117

Post by BeetleB » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 3:01 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #21

oraphalous wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights... Or maybe people who have no particular expertise in political matters should stop opining so much about them? And maybe we should stop politicising all aspects of culture and existence. There is so much more to life.

There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I l…

>Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending.

Sorry, "should" is not in my vocabulary.[1]

>Because there is a message, even from quiet people.

A very useful lesson I learned at a young age. You are in control of your words and actions. You are not in control of how people interpret them, and shouldn't stress too much about it.

The other useful lesson: People will interpret a vacuum, unless they've trained themselves not to. They will find meaning when there was none.

>If you have listeners you have a responsibility for what you are saying whether you like it or not.

Yes, but you are not responsible for things people are assuming from your silence.

I've been hearing this "celebrities have an obligation to speak up on things beyond their expertise" since I was a kid. In most cases, I believe the person saying it merely wants the celebrity to say something political that the person agrees with.

Along the lines of communication skills (the URL I link to below): Your message is devoid of almost any nuance, and is loaded with absolutes. I would recommend reading any good book on communications if you want people to take you seriously.

(And yes, I responded somewhat in kind. I could have taken it further, by pointing out that by taking your stance, you are contributing to the increased polarization in the world, and adding to the culture of no compromise deadlocks. If it is off-putting, you will have a window into how others see your comment.)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19492234

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#118

Post by Angostura » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

Pimpus wrote: post #41

Angostura wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. What are you doing to ensure that in 10 or 20 years time other people will be able to do the same? Your ability to look at the fog rolling across the city is the result of a finely balanced set of climatic factors. If it's something you cherish, it is something you should think about preserving. > Some of us - on the ot…

> What are you doing to ensure that in 10 or 20 years time other people will be able to do the same? Your ability to look at the fog rolling across the city is the result of a finely balanced set of climatic factors. If it's something you cherish, it is something you should think about preserving. This is an ideology. People don't think this way, most of us just enjoy the view.

> This is an ideology.

Well, the first part is science. The desire to preserve it for others may be an ideology. It certainly requires political action.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#119

Post by Angostura » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 3:20 PM UTC

oraphalous wrote: post #43

Angostura wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. What are you doing to ensure that in 10 or 20 years time other people will be able to do the same? Your ability to look at the fog rolling across the city is the result of a finely balanced set of climatic factors. If it's something you cherish, it is something you should think about preserving. > Some of us - on the ot…

Read my edit in my post above... you are completely missing the point.

I'm not missing your point; I was responding to your challenge.

The point is that if you wish to continue the activity you enjoy, you may well need to be politically engaged.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#120

Post by shawnz » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #97

qlk1123 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would he have any great insight on "democracy or human rights" compared the average population? Because he wrote successful software? Linux project itself has been showing how people can collaborate so well. Obviously politics is also something that requires people to work with each other. It is hard to say if he, as a maintainer of this project, has insights of human collective behavior in general.

> Linux project itself has been showing how people can collaborate so well. Yeah, lets just ignore thousands of years of civilization doing that long before some Finnish guy made a software.

I don't think the parent is suggesting that Linus is the only good example of a leader of a major collaborative initiative. Just that he happens to be one good example.