25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds • Hacker News Board

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#41

Post by Pimpus » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:52 AM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #35

oraphalous wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life. I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. > and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Viability is relevant to desired outcomes. What outcome do you desire? Is that outcome a political reality? Given you believe everything is politics anyway - we can safely assume yes…

> I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. What are you doing to ensure that in 10 or 20 years time other people will be able to do the same? Your ability to look at the fog rolling across the city is the result of a finely balanced set of climatic factors. If it's something you cherish, it is something you should think about preserving. > Some of us - on the ot…

> What are you doing to ensure that in 10 or 20 years time other people will be able to do the same? Your ability to look at the fog rolling across the city is the result of a finely balanced set of climatic factors. If it's something you cherish, it is something you should think about preserving.

This is an ideology. People don't think this way, most of us just enjoy the view.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#42

Post by coldtea » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:52 AM UTC

throwthrow99 wrote: post #39

alkonaut wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I l…

> If you have listeners you have a responsibility I've noticed the people who make such claims tend to have horrible politics that need a signal boost. There's a reason why you need to latch onto the success of others and resent those who will not play ball. Have fun with that. @coldtea: If your ideas are so virtuous, you wouldn't need such fervent help. They're not.

>I've noticed the people who make such claims tend to have horrible politics that need a signal boost.

And people who say the above are ok with the established politics, no matter how horrible they are.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#43

Post by oraphalous » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:52 AM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #35

oraphalous wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life. I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. > and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Viability is relevant to desired outcomes. What outcome do you desire? Is that outcome a political reality? Given you believe everything is politics anyway - we can safely assume yes…

> I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. What are you doing to ensure that in 10 or 20 years time other people will be able to do the same? Your ability to look at the fog rolling across the city is the result of a finely balanced set of climatic factors. If it's something you cherish, it is something you should think about preserving. > Some of us - on the ot…

Read my edit in my post above... you are completely missing the point.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#44

Post by coldtea » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:55 AM UTC

Pimpus wrote: post #38

alkonaut wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I l…

> "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Sigh. Are you posting this Twitter meme seriously or is it a joke? It doesn't even stand up to light intellectual scrutiny. As for actors, musicians etc blabbering about politics, the things they say tend to be elitist, disconnected and uninformed. Don't think it does the world any good, apart from highlighting just how far r…

>Sigh. Are you posting this Twitter meme seriously or is it a joke? It doesn't even stand up to light intellectual scrutiny.

Actually, far from a Twitter meme, it's a millennia long empirical observation.

It's only the disconnect from power of today's citizen that make them thing they can be uninvolved with politics (and that this doesn't send a political message and have political impact).

The very definition of a citizen was one who was active in politics (the inverse being someone preoccupied with their own private matters, an "idiotis" in Ancient Greek, and the etymology for "idiot").

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#45

Post by coldtea » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

oraphalous wrote: post #26

alkonaut wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I l…

>There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life. I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. > and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Viability is relevant to desired outcomes. What outcome do you desire? Is that outcome a political reality? Given you believe everything is politics anyway - we can safely assume yes…

>I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that.

"Meanwhile, those in power went on their business as usual, and I was letting them, sending a signal that I'm ok with that, or at least that I wont stand in their way".

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#46

Post by oraphalous » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:59 AM UTC

qlk1123 wrote: post #37

oraphalous wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life. I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. > and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Viability is relevant to desired outcomes. What outcome do you desire? Is that outcome a political reality? Given you believe everything is politics anyway - we can safely assume yes…

> I got up early this morning to look at the fog that had rolled across the city. Politicise that. If you have been in Seoul or Beijing, this sentence automatically politicises itself. Not fog but smoke though.

Lol - I wrote that expecting the flimsiest of retorts to roll in - knowing they would be good for a laugh.

I mean - it doesn't even achieve what it's aiming for. I haven't been in either of those two cities - so by your own logic, my statement isn't political.

And either way - it can't be true that my statement would politicise itself. Statements just represent states of the world. It is humans and their beliefs that politicise them. No statement can politicise itself.

BUT EVEN IF THEY COULD...lol - this just gets better... You just got done saying that my being in another city is what is somehow causally related to the politicisation.

Your response is so far from being an intelligible thought... you need to tear it all down and start again. Go slow... maybe test it out on a family member first. Workshop it.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#47

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 8:00 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #42

throwthrow99 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have listeners you have a responsibility I've noticed the people who make such claims tend to have horrible politics that need a signal boost. There's a reason why you need to latch onto the success of others and resent those who will not play ball. Have fun with that. @coldtea: If your ideas are so virtuous, you wouldn't need such fervent help. They're not.

> I've noticed the people who make such claims tend to have horrible politics that need a signal boost. And people who say the above are ok with the established politics, no matter how horrible they are.

And people who say that want to guilt-trip the entire civilization into self-destructing.

"Used car salesman meets Jehovah's Witness" approach to talking about issues can work for larger injustices, but doesn't generalize well when everyone wants to air their personal grievances. Pushing a message onto every possible forum isn't going to help much, but is sure as hell going to grow divisions and just tire people out.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#48

Post by adrianN » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 8:00 AM UTC

Pimpus wrote: post #38

alkonaut wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I l…

> "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Sigh. Are you posting this Twitter meme seriously or is it a joke? It doesn't even stand up to light intellectual scrutiny. As for actors, musicians etc blabbering about politics, the things they say tend to be elitist, disconnected and uninformed. Don't think it does the world any good, apart from highlighting just how far r…

The same can be said for politicians.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#49

Post by qlk1123 » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 8:01 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #40

qlk1123 wrote: post #18

> Bob: Anything else you want to comment on, either publicly or otherwise? > Linus: I've never had some "message" that I wanted to spread, so ... It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread, but I can somehow understand this respond. My personal take of this quote can refer to another quote from his TED interview[1]: > I’m an engineer. I’m perfectly happy with all the people who…

> While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights, it is just not possible to happen. Why would he have any great insight on "democracy or human rights" compared the average population? Because he wrote successful software?

> Why would he have any great insight on "democracy or human rights" compared the average population? Because he wrote successful software?

Linux project itself has been showing how people can collaborate so well. Obviously politics is also something that requires people to work with each other. It is hard to say if he, as a maintainer of this project, has insights of human collective behavior in general.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#50

Post by rujuladanh » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 8:01 AM UTC

qlk1123 wrote: post #18

> Bob: Anything else you want to comment on, either publicly or otherwise? > Linus: I've never had some "message" that I wanted to spread, so ... It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread, but I can somehow understand this respond. My personal take of this quote can refer to another quote from his TED interview[1]: > I’m an engineer. I’m perfectly happy with all the people who…

Why would we care about Torvalds' political views at all?

Really, who cares? No, he is not a "leader" in any way outside kernel development.

Are we going to ask everyone now for their opinions on anything just because they are domain experts on something completely unrelated?

What is next? Asking (insert random famous politician) about kernel development?