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Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

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Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#61

Post by [deleted] »

joevandyk wrote: post #58
davidcuddeback wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last night, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a press meeting that Wikileaks should be labeled a terrorist organization. I find it frightening that the government has reached a point that they will label anyone they don't like as a terrorist so that they can bypass the legal system. I didn't realize that exposing information could be an act of terror, but Clinton would like to have you believe so. Edit: I di…

So, Clinton did not say in a press meeting that Wikileaks should be labeled a terrorist organization?

[deleted]

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#62

Post by davidcuddeback »

joevandyk wrote: post #58
davidcuddeback wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last night, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a press meeting that Wikileaks should be labeled a terrorist organization. I find it frightening that the government has reached a point that they will label anyone they don't like as a terrorist so that they can bypass the legal system. I didn't realize that exposing information could be an act of terror, but Clinton would like to have you believe so. Edit: I di…

So, Clinton did not say in a press meeting that Wikileaks should be labeled a terrorist organization?

I saw her say it on the news last night. I just spent a few minutes searching for the clip to post it here, but I've been unable to find it. I would think something like that would make bigger headlines, so I'm willing to admit I might have been wrong about Clinton saying that---perhaps I misunderstood something I saw last night.

But in my searches, I did uncover a lot of press (such as the one I linked to in my post above) about other members of the government lobbying to have Wikileaks declared a terrorist organization. It's not quite as frightening as having the Secretary of State say it, but it still serves my original point. It will be a dangerous precedent if the government goes through with what the congressmen are asking for.

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#63

Post by proles »

huherto wrote: post #17

I doubt Assange would really consider it. In my opinion Ecuador is just trying to appear brave against the U.S. without really doing anything. That pays a lot in the internal politics in Latin America.

considering that the current president at one time shut down tv stations and radio stations serving the opposition, this is one of those offers you just pass on. http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,CPJ,,ECU,,48a57540c,0...

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#64

Post by rdtsc »

rbarooah wrote: post #60
rdtsc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you are saying. Technically we are a federal republic but that doesn't matter in this particular argument. We (US) are boasting at being a democracy to the rest of the world. In the propaganda domain we are a democracy. Our citizens have the potential of affecting the political establishmnt through voting. This comes in constrast to say North Korea, China or Lybia. If their government does something outrag…

It's only one walk to the voting booth if there's an alternative available to vote for. Significant changes in US politics have cost lives, blood, and suffering.

The first step is for the majority to recognize the dysfunction of our democracy. People have to realize that self-censorship and self-imposed oppression is keeping them down.

As long as the large majority are drinking the kool-aid they will just end up being manipulated powerful elites and they will vote against their own interests.

On the other hand, in US most people still have access to the voting booth, and to alternative media channels via the internet.

Aside from being added to various shadow 'watchlists' most American can (still!) join an activist group or can try to contant their elected official without a fear of imprisonment, torture and death.

But in more general terms, I was referring mostly to the propaganda domain, in which we project ourself to be a beacon of democracy. I was offering a potential contra-propaganda point that citizens of such self-professed democracies should be held accountable for the actions of their government. Whether we are an actual functioning democracy is another story (I don't think we are ...).

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#65

Post by moo »

bradleyland wrote: post #10

What happens when he releases information that is sensitive to Ecuador's interests?

That just sounds snarky, knee jerk to put down Ecuador without any context. A coup attempt was made against Ecuadorian President Correa, a coup attempt was made against Venazuelan President Chavez, destabilizing efforts are done against Bolivian President Morales, Haitian President Aristide was kidnapped out of Haiti in 2004, Honduran President Zelaya was ousted in a coup in 2009. The article points out Ecuador's motives are exposing the cables related to Latin America, not some claim to freedom of information. For Assange to go to Ecuador and start criticizing the government of Ecuador would just be politically rudderless and stupid.

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#66

Post by Leptosiphon »

kno wrote: post #55
bradleyland wrote: post #10

What happens when he releases information that is sensitive to Ecuador's interests?

Ecuador is not known for its law abiding practices, it will not be smart for Mr Asange to live there. It will be easy to the government of Ecuador or anyone with some power to get him in shit trouble down there.

Ecuador is not known for its law abiding practices

I don't think that's a very accurate characterization. While Ecuador does currently have a volatile government, the country is democratic, with relatively fair elections and reasonably comprehensive civil rights. It's not the US, or even Costa Rica, but Ecuador is also not some corrupt banana republic.

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#67

Post by rbanffy »

redthrowaway wrote: post #43
rbanffy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people have done a lot, sometimes with government support, but those are a tiny minority when compared to the people they represented. You shouldn't judge a people by the actions of their leaders.

"Some people have done a lot?" -CIA backs military coup in Chile to overthrow democratically elected president. Cue almost 20 years of brutal military dictatorship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_coup_of_1973 -Funding and arming right-wing paramilitary militias in Nicaragua to overthrow another democratically elected government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua#Sandinistas_and_the_C... -Hell, blanketting t…

How many people were really involved? A hundred? Two hundred? A thousand? Is that a significant part of all other Americans who didn't know what their government was doing?

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#68

Post by rbanffy »

potatolicious wrote: post #50
rbanffy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that "in theory" a democracy represents the ideals of all its people. Usually, a democracy represents a fraction of the will of a people. Plus, the fraction that agrees with everything the leader does is even smaller.

The problem that line of argument runs into is that the American people has also failed to hold its democratically elected government responsible for the shadier things its done (I'll stop just short of calling them atrocities, though some of it crosses that line). Hell, the sorry state that much of Latin America is in right now is largely directly attributable to the direct intervention of the USA (see redthrowaway'…

I agree apathy and ignorance, usually fueled by propaganda, played a role in this mess, but to blame all Americans for that misses the point. Americans should have held their representatives responsible, but they failed to even get interested. How many Americans can point Chile or Nicaragua on a map?

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#69

Post by sedachv »

redthrowaway wrote: post #7
rbanffy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, the one constant in South America is how much they hate the US I am not sure where you have been or what you have experienced, but I wouldn't call it a constant. I never noticed this widespread hatred towards the US you mention in Brazil, Argentina or Chile. I understand most of the northern Latin America may harbor strong negative feelings towards the US, but I can tell you Brazilians really don't care th…

Sorry, you're correct. I was inaccurate with my claim. The antipathy towards the US is much stronger in Central America and the Andean regions (Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, etc) As for being childish, the US has done a whole lot to earn that enmity. I'd recommend reading Open veins of Latin America , by Eduardo Galeano. It's a difficult read, due in no small part to the author's support of the Cuban Revolution and Castro'…

"It's a difficult read, due in no small part to the author's support of the Cuban Revolution and Castro's government. It helps, however, to recognize that the book was written in 1971, long before it became apparent that the Cuban experiment with Communism had some serious humanitarian costs, despite its successes."

I don't understand why leftists have gotten into the habit of apologizing for collateral damage. The US never did. You can be thoughtful of "Amnesty International morality" (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v26/n23/neal-ascherson/victory-in-defea...) but if it's your overriding criteria we'll all just end up living in Paul Treanor's democracy, and that's a depressing thought.

Re: Ecuador offers WikiLeak's founder Assange residency, no questions asked

#70

Post by bradleyland »

moo wrote: post #65
bradleyland wrote: post #10

What happens when he releases information that is sensitive to Ecuador's interests?

That just sounds snarky, knee jerk to put down Ecuador without any context. A coup attempt was made against Ecuadorian President Correa, a coup attempt was made against Venazuelan President Chavez, destabilizing efforts are done against Bolivian President Morales, Haitian President Aristide was kidnapped out of Haiti in 2004, Honduran President Zelaya was ousted in a coup in 2009. The article points out Ecuador's mot…

Sorry, I don't mean it as a slight toward Ecuador. My point is that it's easy to espouse objectivity when it's someone else's dirty laundry being aired. I question whether any nations' leadership (not just Ecuador) would remain friendly to Assange if it were their own diplomats' private communications being exposed.
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