Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#241

Post by nikodunk » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #227

bachmeier wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to interpret a push notification as anything other than a sign that it's a shady site.

The problem is that many high profile websites behave like shady actors with plenty of dark patterns these days. Reddit is one of the most glaring examples, but even Google makes you go through hoops to tweak your privacy settings for instance. It seems that we've gone through a strange curve, early internet (up to the early 00's I'd say) was a pretty shady place with scams and malware around every corner if you were…

I predict the next step will be less growth-hungry sites taking over that have less VC pressure on them. So businesses with cost structures that can make a few people rich but don't need to show 140% YoY growth. Sites like craiglist, projects from indiehackers. They wouldn't nag me for push notification access – why annoy your customer when your product spreads mostly through word of mouth?

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#242

Post by airstrike » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #172

robinwassen wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User script that overrides the API to noop. :)

I'm just bummed the old greasemonkey site is gone (or whatever it was called), it feels awkward trying to find scripts now.

I'm even more bummed the old stylish plugin was really malware

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/05/browsers_pull_styli...

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#243

Post by apostacy » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #21

Downgrading the prompt to a non-popup icon in the address bar unless it follows a user action sounds like the perfect balance. This won’t entirely stop sites which are properly trying to request the permission in the worst case, and the navbar icon is unobtrusive enough that if it gets spammed it’s no big deal. Actually I think it makes sense to persistently show the notification icon in the navbar once the permissio…

> Downgrading the prompt to a non-popup icon in the address bar unless it follows a user action sounds like the perfect balance.

But where should we put these non-popups? Perhaps we could have a dedicated bar for notifications, rss, and other services that a website offers, as well as any other relevant information. That way, we won't be clogging up the address bar. I'd happily sacrifice vertical 30px for that.

A "status bar", if you will.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#244

Post by driverdan » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

ehnto wrote: post #197

teekert wrote: post #90

It's insane that the two visible options are "Not now" and "Allow notifications" while 99 percent of the time I want never bother me again, in fact disable this feature entirely. I clicked yes exactly 3 times (my own Nextcloud instance, Protonmail and Whatsapp web), I'd be happy to do some more clicking to enable those at the "cost" of never being bugged again.

It's such a passive agressive tactic. It boggles the mind that it's the browser vendors that implemented it. Google spent years blocking popups to the point where I never get them anymore, which is amazing, but clearly they learned a few nasty tricks along the way.

It's not passive.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#245

Post by JensRex » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #202

> Most prompts are dismissed, while almost 19% of prompts caused users to leave the site immediately after being confronted with them. Guilty. I've started taking requests for permission to send push notifications as a strong signal that I've accidentally clicked on clickbait.

I have the same reaction to modal newsletter popups, or anything that blocks the content I want to see.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#246

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

lucaspottersky wrote: post #183

Those omnipresent dialogs are a cancer on the web. It was the worst idea ever. I actually can't believe the browser vendors made basically the same mistake as the obnoxious JS "alert()"

[deleted]

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#247

Post by notahacker » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #25

adrianmonk wrote: post #22

I'm still shocked that anybody thought the first generation implementation of this (in any browser, not specific to Firefox) was ever a good idea. I can see making the request visible to the end user, but... as a dialog ? Why? At least make it a narrow bar across the top/bottom that doesn't obscure web site content and can be easily ignored. Perhaps better would be to make it a button like there is a button to favori…

Agreed completely. - Why are dialogs still a thing? - Why is stealing focus still a thing? Browser makers, operating system manufacturers: Stop it. Dialogs are hot garbage, and users ALONE should have control over input focus. If you need the user's attention flash/animate. If you cannot make a thing without a dialog, focus lock, or focus theft then maybe the thing you were trying to make was inherently a bad idea. W…

For years browser vendors have displayed little yellow infobars at the top of the screen related to page functionality. These were visible enough but didn't demand immediate action in the way a dialog taking focus and overlaying the browser chrome and page does. Browser vendors had better UX options to choose.

And push notifications definitely fall into the "this is something you might wish to do to enhance page functionality" category rather than "this is something the browser needs you to action" category associated with dialog boxes.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#248

Post by eriktrautman » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 4:45 PM UTC

The UX pattern that should be observed is preflighting -- ask the user if they want notifications from within the webpage (if appropriate, obviously) and let them know it'll prompt a browser dialog. If they say yes, you're good to go. It's an extra step that significantly improves both conversion and experience, often used in mobile.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#249

Post by kgwxd » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

Ajedi32 wrote: post #240

TremendousJudge wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the only thing I think it's actually useful for is chat apps -- and for the ones I use frequently I ended up downloading their electron app anyway

It's also nice for Google Calendar notifications.

Convenient, but anything truly important requires multiple forms of notification anyway since you might not be in front of your browser. I usually set sticky reminders (e.g. order more contacts) to send an email, and do-it-now reminders (e.g. ZeroPage Homebrew is live on Twitch now!) to both email and SMS. Browser notifications are pretty redundant after that, but nothing's wrong with having multiple fail-safes if you're really paranoid about forgetting something.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#250

Post by howard941 » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #133

Serious question though: has anyone here ever used the notifications for anything other than web based IM (slack, whatsapp)? I think the use case for legit notifications is very small, thus the UI should be an opt-in, rather than an intrusive pop-up. I never understood why browser makers gave it such a prominent UI, and of course in this attention seeking market it was bound to be abused. The new UI that Firefox is s…

At least one forum uses them to notice followup posts https://devzone.nordicsemi.com . It's redundant in that the forum can be told to notice by email.