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Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

blog.nightly.mozilla.org

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Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#21

Post by zaroth »

Downgrading the prompt to a non-popup icon in the address bar unless it follows a user action sounds like the perfect balance.

This won’t entirely stop sites which are properly trying to request the permission in the worst case, and the navbar icon is unobtrusive enough that if it gets spammed it’s no big deal.

Actually I think it makes sense to persistently show the notification icon in the navbar once the permission has been granted (same with mic, audio, and anything else) providing a quick glance at any privs that have been granted and an obvious way to revoke them.

The icons would then need granted and non-granted states, and perhaps even three states;

- Black : requested but not authorized

- Black with green check : granted

- Grey with red x: requested and denied

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#22

Post by adrianmonk »

I'm still shocked that anybody thought the first generation implementation of this (in any browser, not specific to Firefox) was ever a good idea. I can see making the request visible to the end user, but... as a dialog? Why?

At least make it a narrow bar across the top/bottom that doesn't obscure web site content and can be easily ignored. Perhaps better would be to make it a button like there is a button to favorite/bookmark a site. A dialog isn't even near the top of the list of good designs.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#23

Post by gpm »

jdsully wrote: post #18
CuriousCosmic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of them do have legitimate uses, like chat apps (messages.android.com for example). Otherwise though I do agree that they are a fairly bad idea.

Yea gitter is the only website I've given this permission to. It makes the user experience much better and so far they haven't abused it.

I'd add lichess.org as an example of well used notifications - telling you the opponent moved.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#24

Post by zaarn »

joecool1029 wrote: post #5

god forbid you leave firefox set to never remember history, you don't get the option to block sites forever. So every time you hit a reddit link it will gleefully present you with a prompt about notification permissions.

Firefox has a "Block new requests asking to allow notifications" checkbox in the Notifications settings under Privacy. This can be done for all prompts and will permanently disable all prompts unless you whitelist a website, essentially.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#25

Post by Someone1234 »

adrianmonk wrote: post #22

I'm still shocked that anybody thought the first generation implementation of this (in any browser, not specific to Firefox) was ever a good idea. I can see making the request visible to the end user, but... as a dialog ? Why? At least make it a narrow bar across the top/bottom that doesn't obscure web site content and can be easily ignored. Perhaps better would be to make it a button like there is a button to favori…

Agreed completely.

- Why are dialogs still a thing?

- Why is stealing focus still a thing?

Browser makers, operating system manufacturers: Stop it. Dialogs are hot garbage, and users ALONE should have control over input focus. If you need the user's attention flash/animate.

If you cannot make a thing without a dialog, focus lock, or focus theft then maybe the thing you were trying to make was inherently a bad idea.

Windows is terrible at this. I was running the Visual Studio Installer in the background and it stole key-input focus dozens of times, often going to black dialog boxes that immediately closed leaving focus on nothing.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#26

Post by throwawayjava »

Someone1234 wrote: post #25
adrianmonk wrote: post #22

I'm still shocked that anybody thought the first generation implementation of this (in any browser, not specific to Firefox) was ever a good idea. I can see making the request visible to the end user, but... as a dialog ? Why? At least make it a narrow bar across the top/bottom that doesn't obscure web site content and can be easily ignored. Perhaps better would be to make it a button like there is a button to favori…

Agreed completely. - Why are dialogs still a thing? - Why is stealing focus still a thing? Browser makers, operating system manufacturers: Stop it. Dialogs are hot garbage, and users ALONE should have control over input focus. If you need the user's attention flash/animate. If you cannot make a thing without a dialog, focus lock, or focus theft then maybe the thing you were trying to make was inherently a bad idea. W…

I had no idea wth you were talking about until you mentioned Visual Studio Installer, then I knew immediately what you meant.

This is a huge problem for Windows and Mac.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#27

Post by bugmen0t »

joecool1029 wrote: post #5

god forbid you leave firefox set to never remember history, you don't get the option to block sites forever. So every time you hit a reddit link it will gleefully present you with a prompt about notification permissions.

That's not entirely true. Remembering history is also different from remembering permissions. Firefox should persist those independently from actual URLs in browsing history.

And there's a button in settings where you can disable permission prompts for notifications globally.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#28

Post by Someone1234 »

throwawayjava wrote: post #26
Someone1234 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed completely. - Why are dialogs still a thing? - Why is stealing focus still a thing? Browser makers, operating system manufacturers: Stop it. Dialogs are hot garbage, and users ALONE should have control over input focus. If you need the user's attention flash/animate. If you cannot make a thing without a dialog, focus lock, or focus theft then maybe the thing you were trying to make was inherently a bad idea. W…

I had no idea wth you were talking about until you mentioned Visual Studio Installer, then I knew immediately what you meant. This is a huge problem for Windows and Mac.

Open notepad. Press a key over and over. If the key-press stops going to notepad then focus has been transferred/stolen. Firefox's Notification Permission dialog has this behavior within the browser.

For example go to Reddit or Facebook, start entering text, the notification permission dialog will appear, steal focus, and now your key-presses go into a black hole.

The whole concept of focus-theft is an anti-pattern. Interestingly one mobile operating systems originally designed out but has slowly been creeping back in.

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#29

Post by epse »

l0b0 wrote: post #12

About time. Introducing a feature like this without a "Go away, and never come back!" button was a big UX fail IMO. On a related note, seems like desktop notifications would be a great venue for remote code exploits. Have there been any yet?

Under the big arrow next to the "Not now" button is a "Never on this site" button, of that's what you mean. Otherwise there is the settings item (which, admittedly was added recently)

Re: Reducing notification permission prompt spam in Firefox

#30

Post by barryvan »

zaroth wrote: post #21

Downgrading the prompt to a non-popup icon in the address bar unless it follows a user action sounds like the perfect balance. This won’t entirely stop sites which are properly trying to request the permission in the worst case, and the navbar icon is unobtrusive enough that if it gets spammed it’s no big deal. Actually I think it makes sense to persistently show the notification icon in the navbar once the permissio…

> Downgrading the prompt to a non-popup icon in the address bar unless it follows a user action sounds like the perfect balance.

Agreed. If it's in direct response to a user action (a sync response to a click or a tap on an element smaller than 300x300px, for example), I think it's perhaps more legitimate to have a more visible indication, like a strip across the top. (I'd want the element size constrained to avoid issues with sites adding `onClick` handlers to the `` element or similar.)

> Actually I think it makes sense to persistently show the notification icon in the navbar once the permission has been granted (same with mic, audio, and anything else) providing a quick glance at any privs that have been granted and an obvious way to revoke them.

I believe Firefox already does this. It also shows you privileges which you've explicitly denied -- for example, if you disallow location access, you'll see a slashed compass next to the (i) button in the Awesomebar.

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