Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#171

Post by rb808 » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:16 PM UTC

m-p-3 wrote: post #32

nerdjon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still upset about that. That single service being shut down is what started me to distance myself from all google services except search when possible (including making the decision to actually pay for services when necessary)

I pay for an Inoreader supporter account. It's cheap, it works, I don't have to maintain it, and it ensure some revenue to the developers to keep it going. I'm keeping my gmail.com because it's my main personal online identity, despite hating the UI. If I could pay to retain access to Google Inbox if I could like I'm already paying for Google One to hopefully gain some resemblance of support if shit hits the fan.

I used inoreader. I'm happy with free, but you're right I should start paying as I keep moving off RSS readers that get shut down.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#172

Post by ben7799 » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:17 PM UTC

The Ars article misses the point that google is an ad company that uses it's dominance in search to keep the ad money machine going.

Everything else is just playtime to google. So they have no interest in doing the hard work to support any play time projects at all.

They are so horrific to deal with at an enterprise level.

All this stuff that google shovels out, makes a splash with, and then cancels is just stuff that doesn't further the ad hegemony. You can take or leave the free stuff, if it works for you that's great, but don't expect it to hang around any longer than it serves it's purpose.

They don't charge money for this stuff and keep it around once it stops being relevant for ads because the price tag to make a difference to them would be way too high for anyone to pay for it, especially at the consumer level.

My exposure at this point is basically just Gmail & Calendar. I'd be pretty bummed if Youtube got the axe though.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#173

Post by burtonator » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:17 PM UTC

I'm a developer of an app on Firebase.

I really like the current iteration of Firebase but it's definitely languishing compared to what's happening at AWS.

Firebase is great for our use case as it handles auth easily and has sort of a JSON-put API as well as support for blobs via cloud storage.

https://getpolarized.io/

... if you're interested.

Anyway. This keeps me up at night.

Google has a history of just flat out ignoring products and then killing them. They're not TOO bad in cloud but they're really getting their ass handed to them across the board.

Microsoft is taking their lead in cloud and Amazon is at least 5 years ahead of Google.

I think we're going to look back at 201 and realize that this is the year Google started dying.

They're failing on Youtube with advertisers angry at them. Android developers are pissed on the constant platform changes and abuse from lack of customer support.

Just last week I spent about half a day trying to implement chrome extension inline installation on my site only to find out that they killed that feature six months ago but didn't update their documentation.

The chrome extension store developer console is a joke.

Right now I'm asking for "all permissions" for our extension as I need to inject a header in an HTTP response for CORS.

So we're under auditing for every update.

This includes ASSETS! So if we update an image in our chrome extension we have to wait a WEEK for them to re-audit our app even though the binary didn't change.

Something is seriously wrong at Google and they need to fix it ...

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#174

Post by geofft » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:17 PM UTC

jfasi wrote: post #153

geofft wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting viewpoint and makes a lot of sense, but still - why couldn't Google have accomplished this goal through web search policies? Have the crawler say that if it sees JavaScript with certain behavior it will be de-prioritized compared to a similar website with less annoying JavaScript. Which, to some extent, you get just by focusing on load time: if the crawler emulates a normal browser and measures…

I don’t want to speculate too much on the legals of the situation, so I won’t talk about anticompetitive matters. As for why not do this in indexing, of course they’re doing that. They’ve been doing that for a very long time, but that approach can only go so far. There’s a constant cat and mouse game between websites and search providers, and AMP is a way to end it once and for all. It’s important to stress that the…

I'm not ascribing Google a motivation of wanting to screw over users and developers. I'm ascribing Google-as-a-whole the motivation of wanting to improve the experience because that's good for Google's bottom line, and Google-as-individual-employees the motivation of wanting to do that by shipping new products instead of shipping improvements because that's good for their personal bottom line. Neither of these are shady. They are both individually rational decisions. You don't become Google because you altruistically want to help people without profit; you don't work for Google for that reason, either. You work for Google because you want to do interesting work while being paid well.

I think Google made lots of mistakes with AMP that will be long-term harmful for the web, but I don't think they were malicious in doing so—they made genuine mistakes that it just so happens they wouldn't have been incentivized to make if there were no individual pressure to ship products.

I'm just saying that this pressure exists, and that I personally don't want to be subject to it.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#175

Post by frosted-flakes » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #88

malvosenior wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot probably their only actually good product: maps

Good at being a pathfinding and point-by-point navigation tool, not as an actual map . Their completely broken treatment of street and POI labels makes the product very annoying when trying to preplan a journey, get yourself oriented in a place you don't know, or evaluate alternative routes.

Especially when driving. Super thin, low contrast lines with hardly any labels at a weird angle make trying to read the map while driving super frustrating.

I have a Garmin unit mounted on my car windshield that comes on with the ignition, and the user experience is just so much better. The route lines don't blend in with the background and it has large labels that are actually readable. The low angle of the 3D map actually lines up with the view through the windshield, which compresses a decent amount of roads into a small space. Even the spoken directions are better (I've used British English Daniel for years, and I rarely notice when someone speaks in a British accent).

I don't often set a route, so it mostly functions as an always-present map, which it does exceptionally well. I especially like the banner at the bottom that shows the road I'm currently driving on and the banner across the top that shows the next cross street.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#176

Post by chillfox » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #42

I was going to make a comment about how Google's approach to service deprecation contrasts with Microsoft's, but then I spot-checked my assumptions and realized that MS has discontinued over 50% of the Office ecosystem of apps over the years. So I think I need to instead ask a question: Is Google's deprecation strategy actually unusual for a company with a wide ecosystem of offerings?

Desktop software is different from cloud services. If I have a Windows XP and Office 2003 disc then I can still run Frontpage if I so wish (ideally in a VM not connected to the network). There is no way that I can run Google Notebook anymore (shut down in 2012).

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#177

Post by frosted-flakes » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

breakingcups wrote: post #41

m-p-3 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exact reason why I transitioned from a Nexus to an Android One. The Pixel price-point is too damn high.

The Nexus line did exactly what it was supposed to do. It was meant to push an idealistic vision of what Android phones were supposed to be onto the market at a (too) competitive price point to force other Android manufacturers to follow suit. A few years down the line, consumers have flocked to Android in large numbers, so now it's time to appease other phone manufacturers and guard the bottom line by discontinuing…

Wasn't that the same idea with Microsoft's Surface device line-up? Windows hardware used to be hot garbage when compared to Apple hardware, but manufacturers have since stepped up their game. But instead of killing the Surface line, Microsoft have doubled down on it.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#178

Post by anonuser123456 » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

cc439 wrote: post #161

annodomini2019 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably Google Drive as well.

Good point. Funny enough, the Google Drive desktop application was killed and replaced with Drive File Stream which broke the offline usefulness of Google Drive.

The file stream app still does the old drive behavior if you enable it.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#179

Post by fjabre » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

jfasi wrote: post #153

geofft wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting viewpoint and makes a lot of sense, but still - why couldn't Google have accomplished this goal through web search policies? Have the crawler say that if it sees JavaScript with certain behavior it will be de-prioritized compared to a similar website with less annoying JavaScript. Which, to some extent, you get just by focusing on load time: if the crawler emulates a normal browser and measures…

I don’t want to speculate too much on the legals of the situation, so I won’t talk about anticompetitive matters. As for why not do this in indexing, of course they’re doing that. They’ve been doing that for a very long time, but that approach can only go so far. There’s a constant cat and mouse game between websites and search providers, and AMP is a way to end it once and for all. It’s important to stress that the…

Google's only obligation is to its shareholders. AMP serves its interests. So does building covert search engines to help root out chinese dissidents.

That 'cat and mouse' game is the natural order of things. There is no stopping that other than making things anti-competitive which is what Alphabet clearly wants to do.

Google has become evil and we should expect nothing less from a multibillion dollar conglomerate like Alphabet. This isnt the Google we grew up with. This is the publically traded company Alphabet which will do anything to increase their bottom line whether its ruining the internet with things like AMP or selling search services used to imprison chinese citizens.

Google should be ashamed of itself. Would never take a job at a company like Alphabet. It conflicts with my sense of ethics and morality.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#180

Post by datguacdoh » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

s3r3nity wrote: post #113

jfasi wrote: post #61

Warning: Personal opinion ahead To understand why this keeps happening, you need to understand the product and engineering culture at Google. As a group, Google engineers and PMs are obsessed with promotion. At the heart of every conversation about system design or product proposal lies an unspoken (and sometimes spoken) question: will working on this get me promoted? The criteria for promotion at Google, especially…

I totally understand this - but it doesn't mean I like it. I could get through having two podcast apps on my Android (Google Podcasts, Google Play Music) that give me notifications for my podcasts, with no plans on phasing out one or the other. I could get over having two different music apps - Google Play Music and YouTube Music - because it seemed like there might actually be a plan here - albeit we haven't heard a…

You're basing that on pure speculation so be careful what conclusions you're drawing from it. Chromebooks have historically gotten very good support, even though they tended to be relatively underpowered - the pixelbook isn't so I wouldn't expect support to stop anytime soon.