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Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#61
Warning: Personal opinion ahead

To understand why this keeps happening, you need to understand the product and engineering culture at Google. As a group, Google engineers and PMs are obsessed with promotion. At the heart of every conversation about system design or product proposal lies an unspoken (and sometimes spoken) question: will working on this get me promoted?

The criteria for promotion at Google, especially at the higher levels like SWE III -> Senior and especially at Senior -> Staff and above, explicitly talk about impact on the organization and the business. This has consequences for the kind of teams people try to join and kind of work they choose to do. Maintenance engineering is so not-rewarded that it's become an inside joke. Any team that isn't launching products starts bleeding staff, any project that isn't going to make a big splash is going to be neglected, and any design that doesn't "demonstrate technical complexity" will be either rejected or trumped up.

This is as important in the product management, people management, and general leadership roles as in engineering. The incentive throughout is to create a product, launch it, apply for promotion, and move on to bigger and better things as soon as possible. In my time at Google I saw organization after organization pay lip service to rewarding maintenance and "preferring landings over launches" and “improving product excellence” but (at least in my experience) nothing stuck.

Usually an organization starts with a top-down direction and the rest of the company is compensated for executing it. Not at Google. The "let a thousand flowers bloom" approach that developed from the early days of twenty percent time and total engineering independence has created a disorganized mess of a company. Multiply the individual incentives fifty thousand times and you get a company that throws stuff at the wall to see if it sticks, and if it doesn't kills it immediately.

Edit/Addendum:

This is also why GMail, YouTube, Search, GCP, Android, and others aren’t going anywhere. They’re making money, they’re core to the business, and there’s plenty of opportunity to work on them and get promoted. They all also share one thing in common: deep down they’re frontends for search or advertising (GCP and Apps are an exception because they make money on their own). Measuring and proving impact on search numbers is a well-known promo narrative at Google, so those products are a safe bet for employees and users. Streaming game services, not so much.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#62

These shutdowns might hurt Google's brand among the tech-savvy community that uses edge products like Google+ or Chromecast Audio (never even heard of that before today). But everyone I know still uses Google search and Chrome. Most use Gmail. Schools still give students Chromebooks and teach them Google Docs. I think Google will be fine.

I see the "this news only impacts tech people" argument from time to time, but remember that all the non-tech people ask the tech people they know what to use. And tech people are who set up their family's computers, deploy software widely on business networks, etc. The tech-savvy community was on Google years before the general public, and them leaving Google should set your expectations for what happens with everyo…

"remember that all the non-tech people ask the tech people they know what to use. And tech people are who set up their family's computers, deploy software widely on business networks, etc."

As a techie who has set up and/or fixed many non-techie family & friends' computers and devices, I hear ya. 110%, loud and clear. :-)

However... I wonder how long this will remain true. More and more devices are ready to go out of the box and kids are being taught to use Google products in school.

It's not hard to buy a phone or Chromebook online, log into your Google account and be ready to go.

It's not like the old days when you would have to go to your grandma's house and install a better web browser, antivirus, etc. Most things just work now, for most people.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#63

Google's two (maybe three) core Google-branded products to non-tech people are Search, Gmail and maybe Chrome. I don't think non-techies could even tell you what some of the other products are or did. I would also wager most people outside of tech don't realize YouTube is owned by Google. Tech people pay a lot of attention to this stuff, but casual user's don't notice or don't care.

I disagree. I know a lot of "non-techies" that switched to using iPhones just for iMessage because Google's messaging ecosystem is confusing and seems to change every 12 months. I also know a lot of non-techies that use Google Play Music to upload and manage their own music libraries. It's rumored that Play Music is going to be killed in the next few months as Google pushes YouTube music subscriptions instead. The problem is, just like with Inbox and Gmail, Google rarely ever makes good on promises to port features from old products to new ones. I highly doubt the Play Music users that specifically use it because they can upload 50,000 of their own songs are going to opt into a worse version of Spotify when it's killed off.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#64
Maybe it is time Google thinks about decentralized products again. I mean, yes they are one of the biggest players in the cloud business, but decentralized doesn't mean you can't be a big cloud provider within an open ecosystem.

And if you build open systems, you can abandon those without letting anybody down (unless you didn't even release the complete reference implementation as it happen with Wave).

For example, with Stadia they could have opened up their platform for gaming marketplaces like Steam, GOG, etc. and let people play the games they already own via the Stadia streaming service. That way, nobody would have to be afraid of not being able to play their games when Stadia shuts down in 3 years.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#65

They discontinue products that don't pan out and lose them money (like Chromecast Audio), and they improve features that detract from the user experience and muddy the waters in terms of ads/monetization in their view (YouTube annotations). They run their company as a constant stream of trial-and-error product launches, some of which succeed wildly and make them billions, others fail and are killed off. Makes sense t…

> They discontinue products that don't pan out and lose them money (like Chromecast Audio) I got the Chromecast audio and think it is great. That this was discontinued was news to me. When did that happen? Do you have any links to the announcement?

I went to buy one last week. Apparently discontinued Jan 2019. I just missed the boat, and I am sad.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#66
post #10

Closing inbox has really made me re-evaluate if I want to continue using Google for email, as the clusterf--- of garbage that Gmail has turned into for people with long-standing accounts is untenable. The kitchen-sink approach of gmail has created a website/app that wants to meet every need and honestly meets none. In the next 24 hours or so I'll be forced from a clean and clear perfectly rolled up and ideal notifyin…

Inbox was a dream come true for the zero-inbox mentality. Sadly, I've yet to found a replacement for this tool.

I agree, but you can archive emails in gmail and it does the same thing as setting an email to done in inbox. You can still search for them in the search box or browse the all mail category.

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#67

I was never really a fan of Google+, but it's amazing how it went from MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER to being shutdown completely in such a short amount of time. I'm annoyed by all the other things they've ditched, but it scares me to think they did such an about face on Google+. I'll never use anything new from them, and I always tell anyone who asks to avoid using anything there. I'm kinda surprised anyone would run an…

Google+ was dying slowly to be sure, but the reason it was killed off is because they tried to cover up a data leak affecting over 500,000 users. [0] They've definitely killed off/abandoned their fair share of flagship products without warning (Hangouts, anyone?), but Google+ was shut down to minimize media controversy.

[0]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/google-exposed-n...

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#68

They discontinue products that don't pan out and lose them money (like Chromecast Audio), and they improve features that detract from the user experience and muddy the waters in terms of ads/monetization in their view (YouTube annotations). They run their company as a constant stream of trial-and-error product launches, some of which succeed wildly and make them billions, others fail and are killed off. Makes sense t…

> They discontinue products that don't pan out and lose them money

It seems they also discontinue products that make them money and continue products that lose them money. Their exchanges with the SEC [1] seem to suggest that YouTube loses money (otherwise why wouldn't they publish the numbers?), and if that becomes known public info, it may open them up to a host of legal and political problems.

Regardless, if you discontinue products your customers are using, don't be surprised if your customers stop relying on your products.

1. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/28/sec_google_youtube/

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#69

Google's two (maybe three) core Google-branded products to non-tech people are Search, Gmail and maybe Chrome. I don't think non-techies could even tell you what some of the other products are or did. I would also wager most people outside of tech don't realize YouTube is owned by Google. Tech people pay a lot of attention to this stuff, but casual user's don't notice or don't care.

I disagree. I know a lot of "non-techies" that switched to using iPhones just for iMessage because Google's messaging ecosystem is confusing and seems to change every 12 months. I also know a lot of non-techies that use Google Play Music to upload and manage their own music libraries. It's rumored that Play Music is going to be killed in the next few months as Google pushes YouTube music subscriptions instead. The pr…

> Google's messaging ecosystem is confusing and seems to change every 12 months

Don't worry, they'll launch a new messaging platform that will definitely sort this out for real this time!

Re: Google’s constant product shutdowns are damaging its brand

#70

Google's two (maybe three) core Google-branded products to non-tech people are Search, Gmail and maybe Chrome. I don't think non-techies could even tell you what some of the other products are or did. I would also wager most people outside of tech don't realize YouTube is owned by Google. Tech people pay a lot of attention to this stuff, but casual user's don't notice or don't care.

I disagree. I know a lot of "non-techies" that switched to using iPhones just for iMessage because Google's messaging ecosystem is confusing and seems to change every 12 months. I also know a lot of non-techies that use Google Play Music to upload and manage their own music libraries. It's rumored that Play Music is going to be killed in the next few months as Google pushes YouTube music subscriptions instead. The pr…

Does anyone even use Google's messaging apps? I've literally not seen one being used once in the past 4 or 5 years.

It's been Whatsapp for as long as I can remember.

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