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China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

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Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#101

Post by dang »

thrwwy190401 wrote: post #20
chapium wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't downvoting this within 7 minutes of you posting.

>People aren't downvoting this within 7 minutes of you posting. Obviously they are, or OP wouldn't have added that edit. You can see your comment scores (as you know.) Interestingly, I just read that China employs people to influence social media. (Which Hacker News would fall under, I guess.) What I read was this, I'll quote it in full: >China does this with its 50 >Cent Party: people hired by the government to >pos…

Please don't break the site guideline which asks you not to insinuate astroturfing on HN. See my recent explanation at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19538691.

Plenty more at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme....

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#102

Post by mirimir »

frotak wrote: post #99
mirimir wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, China doesn't want people dissing its internal policies. No country does, do they? And yes, they are repressing dissent within China through "violent physical force". That again isn't unusual. There's a broad consensus that a state has internal monopoly on force. Me, I hate that. But it's not as if China is alone, in that. I'd love to go buy some LSD or shrooms. But authorities put people in jail for that shit.…

I absolutely agree that there are questionable aspects to how the U.S. enforced drug prohibition laws and how non-violent offenders are treated. But again, the fact is that we can openly have, and pursue aggressively, discussion about and attempts at reform around how this is handled. In fact we see this by the spread of various drug legalization efforts in the U.S. and efforts at prison reform. Though there is also…

> But again, the fact is that we can openly have, and pursue aggressively, discussion about and attempts at reform around how this is handled.

Yes, freedom of expression in the US is wonderful. As is freedom of religion. But still, when I'm feeling cynical, I observe that freedom of expression in the US ends when you're actually doing anything.

Or even talking about actually doing anything. Issues around the ritual use of peyote and ayahuasca come to mind.

And still, it's about as good as it gets on planet Earth. Except for, in some ways, northern Europe.

That's a great US report. Thanks. I've drifted a lot around the US, and I was seriously into whitewater for a few years. traveling barely navigable creeks and rivers in the southeastern US, I saw some unbelievable stuff.

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#103

Post by tracker1 »

salawat wrote: post #33
mensetmanusman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isolation doesn’t work (as you point out with NK). Integration also doesn’t seem to be working (well, not nearly as fast as those in the Nixon era and since then hypothesized). My view is that isolation is a worse route, because mostly the poor suffer from economic isolation. I really like the strategy of targeting the powerful politicians/rich benefactors using tools like the magnitsky act. Those people shouldn’t ha…

Which is completely useless unless you also lock them out of the western financial system. The lack of physical presence isn't that big a showstopper anymore. Throw in an inability to exercise financial clout anymore though, and things will rapidly change. There likely isn't much political will for that though, and I'm fairly certain it could only come after a period of weaning the economy off the luxury of cheap as…

A lot of the mfg costs have been offset by automation. Where China now has the advantage is vertical markets in close proximity. You have chips, boards, cases, plastics all created in proximity which adds value. Not too dissimilar to Detroit in the 50's and 60's, a lot of vertical and related markets had footholds in the area.

I think if you isolated China economically, the US and other markets would be able to build their own competitive versions within a couple years.

What is concerning to me is an increasing movement under a different name that would lead to similar policies in the US over time. At least comparing the rhetoric to communist theory in the early 1900's.

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#104

Post by chaostheory »

yorwba wrote: post #98
chaostheory wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is happening in Xinjiang is terrible, but let's be more specific. What's happening is a more intense version of 'reverse genocide' and NOT ethnic cleansing (which is what a generic label of 'genocide' implies). What's reverse genocide? It's when you when you proactively encourage assimilation by intermarriage with Han Chinese (where the family will become Han in culture & treatment by Chinese society) and throug…

> It's when you when you proactively encourage assimilation by intermarriage with Han Chinese How is it encouraged? I was under the impression that Uyghurs and other minority peoples aren't considered to be desirable marriage partners by most Han Chinese.

Right now there's still a huge imbalance between men and women. While not ideal for Han Chinese, just being able to marry and have children makes intermarriage between other ethnic groups a necessity. When the end result is you have a family that more or less looks Han and is culturally Han, no one cares really about the means.

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#105

Post by abc-xyz »

dang wrote: post #100
abc-xyz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'd say the goal should be to isolate China and make them suffer economically.. We can see what they've done to the people of Tibet, Hong Kong, Xijiang, those practicing Falun Gong and so many more. They're also stepping up their efforts of conquering Taiwan and the South China Sea.. the world can't keep turning a blind eye as their influence continue to grow.

It looks like you've been using HN primarily for political, national, and ideological battle. That crosses into breaking the site guidelines and we ban accounts that do it, so would you please stop doing it? If you want to understand why we draw the line at "primarily", I've written a lot about it in the past: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

If you feel that way then you better ban me because I know I'll continue to "primarily" advocate digital privacy, and condemn those who seek(/contribute) to turn the world into a surveillance dystopia.

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#106

Post by scruple »

mirimir wrote: post #51

As much as I tend to hate on China for its extreme policies of government censorship and social control, it's somewhat disingenuous to tar them for lobbying (even ~threatening) other UN diplomats. I mean, doesn't ~everyone do it? Having been interested in the Palestinian issue, and the build-up to the invasion of Iraq, it's pretty clear that Israel and the US have done just what China is doing. And no, this isn't wha…

> ...it's somewhat disingenuous to tar them for lobbying (even ~threatening) other UN diplomats.

We're not tarring and feathering them _for_ lobbying. We are tarring and feathering them for _what_ they are lobbying. Is that not a valid distinction?

What strikes me as disingenuous is to frame your argument in this way, when it misses the point of _why_ this is drawing any attention in the first place.

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#107

Post by mirimir »

scruple wrote: post #106
mirimir wrote: post #51

As much as I tend to hate on China for its extreme policies of government censorship and social control, it's somewhat disingenuous to tar them for lobbying (even ~threatening) other UN diplomats. I mean, doesn't ~everyone do it? Having been interested in the Palestinian issue, and the build-up to the invasion of Iraq, it's pretty clear that Israel and the US have done just what China is doing. And no, this isn't wha…

> ...it's somewhat disingenuous to tar them for lobbying (even ~threatening) other UN diplomats. We're not tarring and feathering them _for_ lobbying. We are tarring and feathering them for _what_ they are lobbying. Is that not a valid distinction? What strikes me as disingenuous is to frame your argument in this way, when it misses the point of _why_ this is drawing any attention in the first place.

On the scale of what the US does about those who trade with Iran, say, what China is doing is nothing.

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#108

Post by scruple »

mirimir wrote: post #107
scruple wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...it's somewhat disingenuous to tar them for lobbying (even ~threatening) other UN diplomats. We're not tarring and feathering them _for_ lobbying. We are tarring and feathering them for _what_ they are lobbying. Is that not a valid distinction? What strikes me as disingenuous is to frame your argument in this way, when it misses the point of _why_ this is drawing any attention in the first place.

On the scale of what the US does about those who trade with Iran, say, what China is doing is nothing .

Trying to sweep human rights violations, to put it as mildly as humanly possible, under the rug, using threats by your own admission, is nothing? Why is your default position here whataboutism?

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#109

Post by wavepruner »

sidibe wrote: post #40
pleasecalllater wrote: post #2

I'm wondering if people in China can see this website in Google. Edit: to people who are downvoting this... check this thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19540562

People in China can't see Google. People here have it so backwards about which companies are most cooperative with China

Yes it's quite bizarre that HN is so anti-Google in this issue. Only tech companies that cooperate with China exist in China. Google tried to stand their ground for years and was completely banned.

Google being completely banned in China doesn't do anyone any good. A censored Google is better than no Google.

Re: China warned others not to attend UN meeting on Xinjiang human rights violations

#110

Post by wavepruner »

wavepruner wrote: post #109
sidibe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in China can't see Google. People here have it so backwards about which companies are most cooperative with China

Yes it's quite bizarre that HN is so anti-Google in this issue. Only tech companies that cooperate with China exist in China. Google tried to stand their ground for years and was completely banned. Google being completely banned in China doesn't do anyone any good. A censored Google is better than no Google.

Why the down-vote? Isn't the absence of Google a more totalitarian form of censorship than some access to Google?
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