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The anti crunch hours license

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Re: The anti crunch hours license

#31

Post by abhinai »

In the best job I ever had in my life, my boss basically told me that she didn't care about the hours I kept or how long I worked every day as long as I got my job done. I usually showed up to work at 12pm and left around 4pm. It ended up being one of the most productive times of my life. I created products that had hundreds of millions of dollars worth of impact on the company bottom line. In my immediate next job I had to keep long hours and for some reasons I wasn't nearly half as productive.

Atleast in my life, shorter work hours tend to heavily inversely correlate with my work output.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#32

Post by justinjlynn »

I-Iuw wrote: post #10

Before this comment section gets any more toxic, please understand the context. The org on GitHub that developed this license is called 996ICU ( https://996.icu/#/en_US ). It is a (very large) group of Chinese developers that are upset with the common practice of working 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. Please be mindful of the fact that lots of developers around the world work under genuinely awful conditions, and that yo…

12 hours a day, 6 days a week - 72 hours a week - and this is a normal practice businesses expect to keep up every week of the year? Yikes.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#33

Post by est31 »

fao_ wrote: post #12
vortico wrote: post #2

Ah, yet another "open-source if you follow my principles" license. It should be an uninteresting fact at this point that yes, you can in fact put whatever clauses you want in your software license. Note that this is a license restriction addon, not a standalone license. To use, ammend to and reference by another license. Note that this removes "open-source" status from the original license if it is open-source, accor…

Well of course, because open source is about ignoring the ability of software developers to do good in the world, their abilities to change things, so instead companies can make money off the backs of software developers who are almost always working for free in their spare time. All in the hope that a software developer might get hired to maintain a project that they thought up. The point of open source is to not be…

> make money off the backs of software developers who are almost always working for free in their spare time.

Part of open sourcing something is accepting that very thing. It's volunteer work and a gift to the commons. Open source software directly helps people who can't afford expensive licenses of proprietary software, either because they are poor in a rich country, or because they aren't rich in a poor country. So don't say that open source software doesn't do good in the world!

> Choosing to 'not be political', is itself a choice for the status quo.

With this argument, most activism could be seen as "choice" for the status quo because you can always spend more of your time and money with activism. Barely anyone is spending all their time and money with it, so per your argument that makes most of them support the status quo.

The mere act of open sourcing something can already be seen as political action about the question of proprietary vs libre software. But that political action has limits, and I think those boundaries should be accepted.

Being non-political is analogous to abstaining in an election. Abstaining is the same as supporting whoever is the stronger force in that election. So it's not supporting the status quo, but whomever is strongest currently. There's a difference between the two.

Also note that activism, especially in non-democracies, often has negative consequences, onto your career, life, health, and of your entire family. Activism in democracies is dangerous as well, due to political discrimination by non government entities (which seems to be allowed in the US) as well as lone haters who resort to violence. And it's always possible that the democracy becomes totalitarian and the people in power take revenge on their prior opponents. This has happened in nazi germany as well as in russia and in other places. People shouldn't be required to ignore their own personal safety or career opportunities to fight for a political cause. Yes, people who do should be admired, but we shouldn't shame people who don't.

Last but not least, a society where people are forced to be activists is a totalitarian one and one where I don't want to live in.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#34

Post by coldtea »

Kaveren wrote: post #6

You have no clue why someone is working more than 10 hours consecutively or more than 45 hours a week. Maybe that's something they're being paid quite well to do, and maybe they want to do so. This type of restriction just screams "I want to feel like a good person." You're within your rights to use this restriction, but it's equally as ridiculous as a restriction forcing employees not to eat toast on Tuesdays, Wedne…

>You have no clue why someone is working more than 10 hours consecutively or more than 45 hours a week. Maybe that's something they're being paid quite well to do, and maybe they want to do so.

Well, stopping them from being able to, will also help the other 90% that don't want to do so, doesn't get any monetary advantage, but still is pressured to. Small sacrifice to make.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#35

Post by mlk12 »

vortico wrote: post #26
zzzcpan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It removes the status of OSI approved license if it used such license, because it becomes a different license, but it's still what people usually call open source. And it doesn't matter if you don't like the common meaning of open source, which has nothing to do with OSI's own definition.

What bullet points does your "common meaning of open source" disagree with in https://opensource.org/osd ?

Can you show us your code?

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#36

Post by est31 »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #20
est31 wrote: post #16

I support the general idea of not having to work 12 hours a day for 6 days. That's crazy. But there are other venues for labour activism than changing the license. And in other Chinese industries that aren't related to software at all, labour activism is quite successful as well. So there is no need to resort to license changes. As for your PS, there is no indication that it's a protest and not just a license.

Uhm... of course there is? https://github.com/996icu/996.ICU https://996.icu/#/en_US Even on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507620 The link just shows you one particular file in the repo, but that should be obvious to anyone who ever used GitHub.

From the github page:

> The purpose of this license is to prevent 996-style companies from using the software or codes under the license, and force those companies to balance their work schedule.

Doesn't sound like protest to me, but like extortion. Either you do what we want, or you can't use our software.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#37

Post by jimktrains2 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #24
rbohac wrote: post #14

so hospitals can never use this? their doctors and nurses, who are "employees" regularily work 12 hour shifts. the same goes for first responders

I hope so. Hospitals make their staff work counter-productive hours, as if they couldn't function with 8 hour shifts. And you don't need to put double quotes around employees. They are employees and deserve to work in a good environment like everyone else

While I'm not defending the schedules that hospital employees work, one thing to factor in is that every hand off can increase errors. (I wish I could find a paper, but I'm on mobile and not having luck.)

However, yes, I do believe that multiple 12+ hour days in a row is ultimately counterproductive. Also, I wonder if overlapping shifts would reduce the chance of errors.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#38

Post by forinti »

TheCoreh wrote: post #18

I live in Brazil. Under Brazilian labor laws, a work week is defined as 44 hours, with each work day having up to 8 hours. So you just excluded companies that have ever had anyone do more than one hour of (paid) overtime any week. Which is basically every company in my country, considering (occasional, paid) overtime is normal and predicted in the relevant laws. Here, 12 hour shifts with 36 hour rest periods is also…

It's a bit worse than it seems, because lunch breaks are not included, so whereas an American would call his 9-to-5 job a 40 hour work week, it would be equivalent to a 35 hour Brazilian work week. A Brazilian work day is usually 8h30 to 18h18 so that 44h will fit into 5 days. You can see how adding a commute of at least and hour (could easily be 2h or 3h in São Paulo or Rio) will simply eat up your whole day.

I think a reduction of the 44h week is long due in Brazil and I don't understand why there isn't more pressure from workers. They probably don't have the time to protest.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#39

Post by ilikehurdles »

rbohac wrote: post #14

so hospitals can never use this? their doctors and nurses, who are "employees" regularily work 12 hour shifts. the same goes for first responders

Hospitals have some of the most toxic work cultures around. So much of that shit is perpetuated by senior level employees justifying hours that are harmful to patient care with “I went through it so why shouldn’t you?”
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